Dominican flag burned by haitian

To evade the issue and the hole you dug yourself into.

NO ONE, TOM or his COHORTS (If you read this board for long, you would find some of the consenting opinions on this issue have been fervent "enemies" in the past)have ever addressed any issue but the American Flag, the Flag this string began within. NO ONE but CAROL ever brought up Nazi flags, Stars and Bars etc., the issue was BURNING OF THE UNITED STATES FLAG. My "Opinion" and that apparently held by many others is that you have the legal right to do as you wish with the flag, but our Legal, moral, ethical, patriotic "right" is to consider people like you for what they are;adjectives that are prohibited on this board.

We all know one another's opinions on patriotism, live with it.

i have asked on 2 occassions whether on not the burning of flags by blacks and jews was a justifiable means of protest --the answer is implicit in your silence
you are a very dangerous man my fiend--the supreme court of the united states has said that the right to burn thr american flag in protest is protected by the provisions of the united states constitution---yet in your opinion anyone that choses to exercise that right is the scum of the earth---that defies logic
try this---anyone familiar with american history knows that all the killings and injustices that took place in the southen states did so with the blind eye of the federal gov't who for political reasons refused to get involved for years--now tom -would blacks have been justified in burning the american flag to protest the lack of action on the part of the federal gov,t- i know the answer--you don't accept the premise

This was a thread regarding "Burning of the US Flag by Haitians" Most people have tried to keep it as such with the exception of one crackpot who is trying to promote his/her agenda, which I can't even figure out from your arcane posts.

Implicit in my silence, how ridiculous. The only relevance my be inference in your ignorance.

If you have an issue with how blacks were treated in the US, which seems to be your cause, take it to a forum that is appropriate.

I'm a "dangerous man," only dangerous to crackpots and anarchists. (and maybe to a certain complete nut whom you seem to strangely mimick, is she back?)

I was thinking the same thing Tom when I have read and re-read the posts....."god bless you"

Shades of ...... dare I say the name......Arcoiris.

Re: Dominican flag burned by haitian

Posted By: carol

Date: Sunday, 22 April 2001

In Response To: Re: Dominican flag burned by haitian (ECH, M.D.)

come on guys let's be honest---it should be obvious-the right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression far exceeds your feelings for a piece of cloth, as dearly as you may hold it--lot's of emotion here but in your heart you know it's right to burn a flag in protest--where's the harm

~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~ + ~

Carol,

Read your own words, then try, as difficult as it might be, to follow my line of thinking, got it ? ? ?

This is from you 22 April post, "feelings for a piece of cloth," are referring to the "Stars & Stripes"? If not then please set me straight. What would you have us do, turn a blind eye to the desecration of the symbol of our national identity ? ? ?

You have raised at least two related subjects, the desecration of "Old Glory" and the symbolism of one's national flag. Mr. RR has made reference to your flippant regard ("a piece of cloth") for the flag of the United States. If you were a citizen of the US then you could, and rightly so, tell me what to think about my country's flag. In the mean time I'll always have a deep regard for those that spilled their blood defending the liberties we enjoy as citizens of the US. For me the "Stars & Stripes" symbolize every thing I hold in my heart as to my country's national identity, whether it be good or bad.

>>> "gentlemen please--there has always been one issue here and one issue only---is it justifiable (in the philosophical moral sense)to burn the flag as a means of protest--" <<<

Carol, the issue of "only one issue" is only in your head, review the words you've written.

>>> "-i have never been concerned with the country in which it is burned and whether or not such conduct invokes criminal sanctions--those are irrelevant considerations-" <<<

>>> "the jews not justified in burning the nazi flag--if any of you say "no" then i surely pity you" <<<

Your words "-i have never been concerned with the country" and then you address " the jews not justified in burning", and in which country are "the jews" suppose to burn the bloody flag? Stay on track, your rambles are either connected or not, so admit to the mistake if you've made one. Also you mention POWs in a Japanese camp, a third or maybe fourth country ? ? ?

>>> "the flag is targeted as a means of protest for the very reason that it does invoke so much emotionalism---read the threads here and see what a low life scum bag i am for daring to hold this view--and it's this emotionalism that interferes with their inability to grasp the real issue--god bless you tom" <<<

Carol, the "real issue" here is your inability to comprehend the individual posts and how they relate to the original message that started this thread.

I (CES, me the person writing these words) HAVE NEVER stated that some poor misguided wretch has or does not have the right or prerogative to burn a flag be it the Stars & Stripes or not. If an individual out side of the sovereign territories of the United States of America has the onus to burn a flag, any bloody flag, then please be my guest, I can live with it.

Regards,

. . . CES

think there is even the remotest possibility that Carol and the '''Painted Reptile''' are connected. This horrid thought would surly be the ultimate argument against allowing any further research into the possibility of human cloning. . .

Regards,

. . . CES

ps . . . Dolly, n e 1?

I'm amazed at the viciousness of some of these responses.Here are some of my observations, if anyone is interested:

1)Carol stated that the freedom of expression or speech is greater than having a law preventing the burning of a flag. In the U.S., she is legally correct. This has been affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court. Her comment about it being a 'piece of cloth' offended many people. But I believe her point is this: that the freedom of people to express their wishes and desires for a free society (the 'greater good')far outweighs any concern one should have for something specific and material (be it a piece of land, a monument, or flag). It is, after all, the idea of freedom for which the flag stands for.

2)If you morally believe that burning a flag should NOT be allowed, then it seems to me the argument u have to show is why should SOME nonviolent acts of protest be illegal,and where do you draw the line, as you are impeding on that sacred right of freedom of speech.

3)The flag as symbolism. Ah...here is the one that bristles the hair. And, as someone mentioned, it is precisely for this reason that causes it to be a focus for protest.It is true that while a flag, on the one hand, may represent sacrifice, security, and patriotism to some, it may stand for hypocrisy, slavery, and subjugation to others. The point these groups have in common, however, is that both feel that a flag SHOULD represent a society that is fair, equal, and respectful of a person's life and well-being. To these two groups then,the flag, to use a bad analogy, represents whether the glass is 'half-empty' or 'half-full'. Calling people names or personally criticizing them is wrong and has nothing to do with the issue- period. In fact, the whole discussion abt blacks, jews, japanese, etc being 'justified' in burning the flag, for me, falls under the topic of whether freedom of speech shld permit that form of protest, as it is obvious (or shld be) that those groups of people would see the flag as a symbol of their country coming up short in fulfilling their hope (and quite an understatement that is).

Anyways, I've gone on too long. Those are my thoughts. Except for the personal attacks, have enjoyed the posts very much.

Viciousness aside J_Ker,

I believe the majority of posters said that they agree that individuals have the right to burn the flag (in countries like the USA and Canada), but that they personally find it offensive and insulting. Furthermore, they wrote that many other people would too, and the protesters would be putting themselves in danger of bodily harm by doing this because others would be outraged. The instigator of this thread believes that burning a flag is a powerful form of protest. It may be, but does it get the status quo changed? That's the argument in a nutshell. Enough said about this issue. Let's get back to the Dominican Republic issues this board specializes in.

Ypu have managed to twist the post almost as well as Carol NO ONE EVER SAID YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BURN THE US FLAG. No one can take away my right to beleive that someone who does so is a low life scum sucking unpatriotice piece of sh...MY FREEEDOM OF EXPRESSION

amen