[Keith R]

Originally Posted by LarrySpencer

Yes, let's talk about the Dominican Republic.

Much of the gasoline in the Dominican Republic is imported from the United States, from the same refineries that provide gasoline for much of the east coast of the US, so comparing the two fuels in not a far stretch.

Interesting claim. Can you back it up with a reliable source? There is a paucity of good stats regarding the DR's trade, but I'd like to know where I can find such detailed information. Always willing to learn!

However, my understanding has always been that the great majority of gasoline consumed in the DR is from imported crude refined by the single government refinery complex, Refindomsa. According to the latest posted stats from Refindomsa, over 60% of their imported crude comes from Mexico, 15-18% from Venezuela, and the rest from "others."

So, unless I can find more reliable stats, yes, your assumption is open to question.

And saying that fuel prices will definately increase if they put more efforts into providing cleaners fuel is also not a far stretch.

Of course it's not. Who said otherwise? What I said is that you cannot compare Dominican costs with Californian costs, as you were doing. Heck, you cannot compare Californian costs with East Coast costs! The DR has a single refinery complex, geared to certain crude, in all likelihood different from that used for the California market. The DR market size and composition is different. The cost of labor and energy is different. And no one should assume that the DR will immediately shift to California norms for fuel quality! Heck, even Europe is only just getting to that point.

It is a fact that everytime they do something different with fuel, the cost is passed on to the consumers. I don't think there is a person in the world that could argue that point. Welcome to capitalis!

As I said, I don't think anyone suggested differently. It was just your choice of cost structures which was called into question.

Therefore, using California as a prime example of what will happen if they begin enforcement like this is clearly legitimate...call it an anology if you will.

But they are not analogous. I suggested, Costa Rica's cost and market structure might be analogous to the DR, but not California's. Maybe even Puerto Rico's cost structure might be analogous, although I would point out that PR still has to comply with EPA dictates, and as I said, no one thinks or argues that the DR will approximate EPA standards anytime soon.

So your choice of line of argument is not clearly legitimate, if legitimate at all. It is, in fact, dubious.

As far as the asthma topic....I will gracefully bow out of that discussion with this. Yes, it is true that air pollution can have an adverse effect on one's health. Air polution is closely related to poor running automobiles, but mostly industry, fires, and small engines. Automobiles, but their very design tend to not polute as much as the aformentioned, however do give off much pollution. Not to mention the pollution released through poor maintenance, it, oil and other fluids leaking...these find their way into aquifers, oceans, rivers, lakes and streams.

Again, you are talking about air pollution in the US, and my guess is, Southern California at that. Your lack of knowledge of DR conditions, or refusal to use that knowledge in this thread, is showing. For example, large numbers of vehicles -- automobiles, buses, trucks, motorcycles -- in the DR tend to be older models without the wonderful design you mention. And many imports have their catalytic converters disabled by their owners in the name of better gas mileage -- just ask on the board, they'll tell you. Those that do not remove or disable them remove them when they go bad, rather than pay to replace them. There is thriving market in this in the DR -- I know from talking to mechanics during my years living there. And as for maintenance of the pollution control systems -- HA!

I have been consistently told by government officials and environmental engineers that industry emissions are a relatively small component of air pollution in Santo Domingo and Santiago, the two main population centers. The reason being is that the industries most likely to produce air discharges of significance are absent in the DR economy. Again, if you have data on the DR that suggests otherwise, I welcome it.

Fires are intermittingly a factor, as I indicated with my reference to the Duquesa burning, but they are not the regular component you suggest. Perhaps in Southern Calif. they are, but not in Santo Domingo.

If by small engines you are referring to plantas, then I agree, and this was mentioned by the OP and others as a contributing factor. But if you meant lawnmowers and other two-cycle engines (as is the case for VOC emissions in the Air District in S. Calif.), you are off the mark with regard to the Dominican market & environment.

Another leading cause of air pollution is the creation of electricity. Tons of air pollution are created in order to produce just a few kWh electricity. There are so many factors involved that blaming it only on cars is the furthest stretch one can take, although I agree that they are a portion of the problem.

I'll grant you the point about electricity generation. Some of the generating plants are doubtless significant contributors -- in their locales. Whether the ones located outside SD but providing the SD grid have their discharges blown over the city, I cannot say with any certainty and I doubt you can either.

I understood what the original poster meant because I have had to sit through more traffic jams in the DR than I can count, and what I breathed in made me, my daughter and other asthmatics sick. It wasn't too bad while I had the air conditioning running. But when it broke down and I had to travel around town with the windows down all the time for a couple of weeks, the difference it made on the lungs of myself and my daughter was significant and clear. Same for when I was at home in my relatively quiet neighborhood. To argue that vehicle (notice I say vehicle, not just automobile) emissions are not a leading contributor in the DR to air pollution and concomitant health problems is, frankly, to deny the Dominican reality.