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  #31  
Old 03-29-2002, 06:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,208
Tony C Level 1 (10)
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MommC

Your ancestors helped set up Green Bay! WOW! My ancestors only participated in the Founding of small insignificant places like Havana, Santo Domingo, Veracruz, St. Augustine, San Juan and others. And yes! I have the proof!
Please remember when your ancestors were picking potatos Mine where conquering half of the world!
But you know something. I don't care. Canada is a Nice country but hardly a world economic power. Or any type of Power at all. It is mostly populated by Cheap amoral boring people who would rather support a murderous thug than spend a few $ more on ther vacation.
I am not TW! I am not here to argue personal net worth or material possessions. So I don't care where you have your Monopoly money invested. Oops! I mean Canadian dollars.
BTW I finally found out what that french saying on your license Plates means
"Je Me souviens" Means "I drove slow in the left hand lane" or "I Tip 10%"

Tony C.
  #32  
Old 03-29-2002, 06:16 PM
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eric Level 1 (10)
Question

Jazzcom must not have access to the net in the DR,for this thread to just die.
  #33  
Old 03-31-2002, 03:39 AM
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mobrouser Level 1 (10)
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bob, back at the beginning of march i read a review of a movie called "Life and Debt". i had considered posting here about it because the similarities to the situation in RD could not be ignored, but i suspected that it would not be properly appreciated.

just to summarize it is about the effect that globalization, IMF and World Bank involvement, as well as US manipulation of the WTO, has had on the Jamaican economy over the past 30 years. needless to say it does not paint a rosy picture for any 'third world' economy.

and, for those people who need to know, stephanie black (the creator of the film) is an American.

check out the links below also.

Mar. 29, 01:00 EDT
How IMF aid sank the Jamaican economy
Jennifer, Wells

SOMETHING TO DO this weekend.

Haul thy carcass over to the Carlton Cinema and spend 86 minutes watching Stephanie Black's Life And Debt.

No, it wasn't an Oscar contender and no, it won't be hosting the hundreds who will surely wake up this morning thinking, "Gee, I wonder what Halle Berry looks like beneath that garnet-coloured gossamer dress." Time to see Monster's Ball.

Rather, Life And Debt is one of those documentaries that reminds us how true life can weave as distressing a narrative as any old fiction dreamed up by Hollywood.

The place-line: Jamaica. The story line: the 30-year decline of the post-independence Caribbean island aided and abetted by the likes of the International Monetary Fund.

Yup, this is a movie with an agenda, and if you think the IMF should not be shellacked for the "assistance" it has provided to developing countries like Jamaica you'd best not go. Black's view is that neither the IMF, nor the World Bank, nor the United States with its complaints to the World Trade Organization over Jamaica's banana exports have done the country any favours.

Michael Manley, the former Jamaican prime minister, is the story's heart, captured by Black in his waning days before he succumbed to cancer. His beautifully rounded vowels lofting into the air, Manley recalls getting into bed with the IMF in the first place — "One of the bitter, traumatic experiences of my life." Manley's filmic counterpoint is provided by IMF deputy managing director Stanley Fischer, who once gave a speech in which he extolled Article IV of the IMF's charter, which pledges to foster "orderly economic growth with reasonable price stability."

That's nowhere close to Jamaica's experience. The country, strapped for cash and spurned by the private banking community, reached out to the IMF for hundreds of millions of dollars in loans only to fail to meet the fund's repayment requirements. Manley blames the tearing down of trade barriers, the resulting tide of imports and the ultimate collapse of much of the country's economic base.

The dairy industry is one. Swamped by the influx of low-priced American milk powder, which the film charges was subsidized at home at rates in excess of 100 per cent, Jamaican dairy farmers found themselves stuck with cows to be milked, but no market. The industry was destroyed, the cows shipped to the slaughterhouse. Fischer's assertion that countries "grow better" when integrated into the world economy didn't wash with the dairy producers, or the potato farmers who could only helplessly watch as poundage of cheaper spuds from Idaho — not to mention the fertilizer and the potato seed — landed with a thud in the open-air markets.

McDonald's arrived, as you would expect, and tens of millions of dollars were spent upgrading a meat processing plant in anticipation. But McDonald's wouldn't take the island product.

The banana farmers started laying off workers 'round about the time the United States launched a complaint with the World Trade Organization. The tariff-free guaranteed market that tied Jamaica to the European Union was, charged the United States, unconstitutional and discriminatory. Not that Jamaican bananas had anything to do with the U.S. banana market, which is serviced exclusively by Latin America. Jamaica's arrangement with the EU was meant to help lift the country out of what Manley calls "that old colonial crisis of finance." The U.S. complaint merely served to advance the world market interests of the likes of Dole and Del Monte.

The remedy, or someone's idea of a remedy, arrived in the creation of "free zones," prefab manufacturing plants where thousands of Jamaicans signed on to sew up shirts with such labels as Tommy Hilfiger and Brooks Brothers. Every piece that goes into the assembly is U.S. made, right down to the thread, and the product, of course, is quickly shipped to the United States by the container load. The jobs are low-wage, but apparently not low enough for the manufacturers, who started moving assembly to even cheaper sewing bunkers in such locales as Mexico. Such is the face of free trade in Kingston.

Black paces her economic odyssey with music from the Marleys (Ziggy and Bob) and Peter Tosh, which is pleasing, though her interweaving of stereotypically beer guzzling tourists is wearying. And Manley does appear too saintly. His reaching out to fugitive financier Marc Rich (the same Marc Rich pardoned by former U.S. president Bill Clinton) back in '89 for a $50 million "cash advance" is one episode that could have illuminated how desperate the prime minister grew in his search for funds.

That's picking a nit. Ultimately, the IMF loans neither aided Jamaica's economic growth nor its poverty reduction. The picture of milk flowing in the streets tells the whole story in a shot. Catch it if you can.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legal Notice:- Copyright 1996-2002. Toronto Star Newspapers Limited.



www.pbs.org/pov/lifeanddebt

www.lifeanddebt.org/about.html

mob

Last edited by mobrouser; 03-31-2002 at 05:06 AM..
  #34  
Old 03-31-2002, 10:49 AM
Rising to the occasion, occasionaly!
 
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Criss Colon Level 3 Criss Colon Level 3 (178)
Thumbs down # ! Thread!!!!!

# ! "Most Boring" that Is! Time for an "Icy Cold One"!A young "Bed Warmer",and "who Cares" about all the "BS"? "MoomC" will never answer the question;"How many Canadian dollars will I get for a "Real"(USA) dollar?? Case closed!! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
  #35  
Old 03-31-2002, 02:09 PM
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mobrouser Level 1 (10)
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cc, did you get lost in the wrong forum again?

just remember if it's purple you've strayed too far away from home....stick with blue and gold.

mob
  #36  
Old 03-31-2002, 03:42 PM
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bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 (533)
Default further education

to further educate Jazzcom: The American Goverment allows Canadian logs(round things), to come across the border duty and tariff free( to supply American sawmills because they don't have the same quality), yet these same logs are assessed at the same stumpage fee as the ones cut up for lumber( which they put a 29% tariff on). The heart of the problem is the 63 cent Canadian dollar and the more efficient Canadian Industry. Us foreign devils must be cheating, because as every American knows in his bones that Americans always win a fair fight. If they lose, the fight is, by definition, unfair. You see America doesn't have any real friends, they just have " domestic interests", that must be appeased. Unites States is not Canada's best friend and probably not our friend at all, just our closest neighbour. And yes, this is American bashing. You still didn't tell me what America offers Canada other than a place to sell things. As for name calling, you picked that name a long time ago. I guess insular would be more acurate.
  #37  
Old 03-31-2002, 05:25 PM
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eric Level 1 (10)
Default Bob Saunders

Thats a little harsh don't you think?I mean Jazzcom stated that he would be in the DR for the week,so he is not able to respond to your post.Whether or not people agree with you,you were making your case clearly,and concisely.You had facts and statistics to back up your case.Now out of the blue you are resorting to sarcasm,and name calling.Neither helps advance your case.
  #38  
Old 03-31-2002, 05:45 PM
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bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 bob saunders Level 6 (533)
Default I was pretty gentle

Well. Eric, sometimes you can only put up with ill informed opinions for so long before you respond in kind. Don't get me wrong, I think the Canada is guilty of some of the same practices that I blame the Americans for. In fact, I am dead set against many Canadian policies. I'm not a fan of anyone that says one thing and does another, and Canadian politicians are just as guilty as their American cousins, just not quite so holier han thou.

One question: Does anyone out there think subsidies are a good idea? Anyone that doesn't realize how subidized American industry and Agriculture is, isn't very well informed. I know that the only one that loses through all this is the consumer.
I think there is truth in my words about fair fighting, but I WILL NOT RESORT TO NAME CALLING AGAIN, GENTLE AS I WAS.
  #39  
Old 04-01-2002, 12:00 AM
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MommC Level 1 (10)
Exclamation To Tony C

I was responding to Jazz and said I could go on and on but wouldn't. I was confining myself to a few statements about places he would know of. So keep your nose out of it! If you want me to list my pedigree from the "other" side of the big pond you'll have to wait until I get home to Canada where my charts are. Let's just say that I've a lot of "blue" blood in these veins, and it can be traced back to areas that are today known as England,France, Holland,Ireland,Scotland,Germany,Switzerland and Italy. I have documented back to 1289 in some of those countries and some of the names you may be aware of are names like William,Napoleon, Josepha,Elizabeth,Keyser, so...........'nuf said.

As for Criss....I did reply to your question.....I don't really know and I don't really care. Go do a search and find a currency converter if it's that important to you. I bring Canadian dollars here and they buy as much today as when I first started coming here. I take American dollars to the USofA when I go visit my son and other relatives who live there. I keep a sizeable American dollar account both at home in Canada and here in the DR. for when I need American $$$. I don't need to convert my Canadian $$ to American$$ so I really don't care what the exchange rate is. When I purchase merchandise in Italy for our business I do so in lira (which has now been converted at the going rate to Euro's).
Maybe you have to worry about exchange rates but I don't!

Now back to topic.......Free trade can only really be free trade when all parties who have signed the agreement don't practise "protectionist" policies which is what the USofA is presently doing. I think Bob posted some very good info re"subsidies" and the differences between the US and Canadian forestry industries. It is well known that American producers are heavily "subsidized" by the fed's although in such a manner as to not actually call the handouts "subsidies". Much like grain, pork, poultry, milk and egg production.

Is the USofA really that "afraid" that Canadian producers will outperform them and "flood" the American market? Interesting concept.........while we may indeed be more "productive" surely big brother doesn't think that our miniscule population base can "outperform" and overwhelm the big green machine or do they?
  #40  
Old 04-01-2002, 07:44 AM
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Paul Thate Level 1 (10)
Default Re: To Tony C

Maybe you have to worry about exchange rates but I don't!

Well you should 30 years or so the Canadian dollar was worth more then the us $. But through years of economic mismanagement compared to the US$ the CAD $ is now monopoly money.


Now back to topic.......Free trade can only really be free trade when all parties who have signed the agreement don't practise "protectionist" policies which is what the USofA is presently doing.
Right but by omitting to mention Canada you suggest Canada is.
It is not at all honest and fair .
And most of the US protectionist game is tit for tat.
Retaliation for the games the Canadians play .


I think Bob posted some very good info re"subsidies" and the differences between the US and Canadian forestry industries. It is well known that American producers are heavily "subsidized" by the fed's although in such a manner as to not actually call the handouts "subsidies". Much like grain, pork, poultry, milk and egg production.

What Bob posted was also from the narrow Canadian view
point and does also not take into account
that Canada started playing games first.

Is the USofA really that "afraid" that Canadian producers will outperform them and "flood" the American market? Interesting concept.........while we may indeed be more "productive" surely big brother doesn't think that our miniscule population base can "outperform" and overwhelm the big green machine or do they? [/B][/QUOTE]

There is no hope in hell the Canadians could outperform the American economy.
They are surely not afraid,. Just treat them fair.
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