Leonel: il Capo de los Resentidos Sociales como el!

[Amory Blaine]

Esto es cierto:

http://www.elecciones-en-latinoameri...zgonz-tav.html

Ese man lo que esta es confundiendo al pueblo! Cuidense!


Check that link out dudes, so you can see that Leonel is a LIAR and he will screw you with his "corralito" plan (not refunding the CB certificates) and he will not be able to govern with PRD dogs in Congress and he won't be able to control the strikes that will set the country in flames and he won't be able to execute tax reform and he will bring his socially-resented maids and chauffeurs to the National Palace. He's a poisonous snake that knows no limits.

[deelt]

So sad...A good mind gone to waste. Do you actually believe that Estrella will win? He is there to split the vote! Get over it and vote purple. If you are not careful you will end up re-electing Hippo...and then we will really be up the creek without a paddle.
Peace

Originally Posted by Amory Blaine

Esto es cierto:

http://www.elecciones-en-latinoameri...zgonz-tav.html

Ese man lo que esta es confundiendo al pueblo! Cuidense!


Check that link out dudes, so you can see that Leonel is a LIAR and he will screw you with his "corralito" plan (not refunding the CB certificates) and he will not be able to govern with PRD dogs in Congress and he won't be able to control the strikes that will set the country in flames and he won't be able to execute tax reform and he will bring his socially-resented maids and chauffeurs to the National Palace. He's a poisonous snake that knows no limits.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Amory Blaine

Esto es cierto:

http://www.elecciones-en-latinoameri...zgonz-tav.html

Ese man lo que esta es confundiendo al pueblo! Cuidense!


Check that link out dudes, so you can see that Leonel is a LIAR and he will screw you with his "corralito" plan (not refunding the CB certificates) and he will not be able to govern with PRD dogs in Congress and he won't be able to control the strikes that will set the country in flames and he won't be able to execute tax reform and he will bring his socially-resented maids and chauffeurs to the National Palace. He's a poisonous snake that knows no limits.

Shouldn't you be doing your homework?

[mondongo]

Amory,

Would you do me a favor?....would you pin-point which page of which document of which link backs up your claim of a "corralito" by Leonel?

[deelt]

Mondongo:
Just a few points:

* This is just an OPINION/EDITORIAL article from Fausto Gonzalez-Taveras a MA STUDENT at Harvard which to me just doesn't mean much....

* Fausto (and apparently his partner in crime, Amory who is also at Harvard)
have put together an tag-team effort to impress you Mondongo.

* Fausto can't deny that the GDP of DR was the fastest growing during Leonel(forgets to mention, in the world, that's right even faster than CHINA) not during Balguer.

* While he wants to give credit to Balaguer, fine, but the fact remains that
during this time Leonel efficiently and effectively maximized returns since he maintain and improved the economy. Note all the damage Hippo has been able to do in a 4 year period to DESTROY and RETARD the country while colluding with PRSC. Had Leonel been as bad why did he not destroyed and retarded the country during 1996-2000, why wait?

* Fausto, erred in his analysis by citing the creation of Zona Francas as an external factor of investment. This was part and parcel of Leonel's privatization policy in his following the Washington Consensus. Moreover, it was this money that he was able to modernize the Santo Domingo, the capital which Balaguer ignored. I think Fausto also fails to recognize the hardline international campaign Leonel underwent to improved DR's image internationally during those 4 years, compared to the embarrasment we currently endure under Hippo as he colludes with PRSC.

* Fausto, recognizes the economic boom, but fails to mention that Leonel actually paid down the debt which Hippo with his collusion with PRSC ballooned.

* Fausto, mentions that it is false that Leonel provided stability for risky investments made by banks. This is were his myopic view limits his understanding that an efficient bureacracy translates to enhanced market valued. During 1996-2000 we did not have to pay bribes. There was an actually functional government! Imagine that! Would a bank that would like to invest want to invest in DR now? No, way, because of the very instability exhibited by the current administration. (RE CAFTA:the US is counting on Hippo to be ousted they are just not saying it.)

* Fausto, erroneously attribute the increase in salary to Balaguer, when in fact this was Leonel's idea to deter corruption by instituting a FOREIGN concept in DR government: Efficiency wages!! This is part of econ 101. If this was Balaguer's doing why were wages not raised sooner, pre-1996, when he had the chance?

* Fausto also fails to mention the fact that Leonel actually DECREASED the size of governement, minimizing BOTELLAS which further increased the efficiency of the government.

It is really sad when a good mind goes to waste. Please don't be fooled.
Both Amory and Fausto should really be doing their homework rather than causing havoc in meeting their families little hidden agenda.

Thank you.

Artículo de opinión

REPÚBLICA DOMINICANA:
Coincidencias que confunden: la suerte del PLD y el crecimiento económico 96-2000

por Fausto Arturo González-Taveras
Estudiante de Economía de la Universidad de Harvard. Cambridge, MA (EE.UU.)

http://www.elecciones-en-latinoameri...epdom2004.html

Originally Posted by mondongo

Amory,

Would you do me a favor?....would you pin-point which page of which document of which link backs up your claim of a "corralito" by Leonel?

[Chris]

I must be missing something - Is it only me?

[NALs]

He's cousin of one of my Godfather's sister husband. And I met the guy about 1 and a half year ago. Personally, very articulate person with alot of ambition. Professionally he is very intelligent and goal oriented. However, as he states constantly, the opposition which holded most of the legislature during his rule in the late '90s made passing the slightest bill a pain in the a**. What ever bill (and there were only a few) that were passed, simply facilitated the economic transparency and activities in the Republic, resulting in maintaining the impressive economic record of the country. Trust me when I say that Leonel is a very very good candidate. He is perfect compared to Hippo, but a good candidate compare to the other guy. I don't know the other guy personally, so I'll leave it at that. Besides, Leonel won't ever get criticize for talking trash at all time .

[Narcosis]

Democracy can be such a tough pill to swallow..

But since we are in a democracy we must play by the rules or get ourselves in more trouble.

Elections are won with votes and the majority of those votes lie in the barrios with the poor. It is real easy for the PRD to keep the country on the same populist path unless forces are colluded againts them.

Amory, I agree with some of your points, nonetheless your focus should be on attacking the PRD instead.

Why is your focus on Leonel, the real problem is the PRD. You will only help the PRD cause with your words, which by the way are identical to those of PRD followers.

[Amory Blaine]

Ok. Fausto and I are right here to counterpoint. This is fun. All our rebuffs are in CAPS.

* This is just an OPINION/EDITORIAL article from Fausto Gonzalez-Taveras a MA STUDENT at Harvard which to me just doesn't mean much....

HA. WE WISH WE WERE MA. WE ARE UNDERGRADS. THANKS THOUGH. BY THE WAY, HARVARD DOESN'T MA IN ECONOMICS. JUST PHDS.

* Fausto (and apparently his partner in crime, Amory who is also at Harvard)
have put together an tag-team effort to impress you Mondongo.

NOT TO IMPRESS. TO TELL THE TRUTH, GUYS.

* Fausto can't deny that the GDP of DR was the fastest growing during Leonel(forgets to mention, in the world, that's right even faster than CHINA) not during Balguer.

OH THAT IS TRUE. BUT IT WAS LUCK. NOT LEONEL. PEGNA COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME. PEOPLE, THE RISK TOLERANCE OF 96-2000 INVESTORS WAS SUPER HIGH. THEY DID THE SAME THROUGHOUT LATIN AMERICA. IT WAS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT LEONEL, IN ANY CASE IT WOULD BE BALAGUER. WE GREW ABOVE 6% DURING BALAGUER'S LAST TWO YEARS. THAT STARTED EVERYTHING AND THEN THE HIGHER RISK TOLERANCE MADE THE CASH POUR IN. IN FACT, THE CASH POURED IN TO DOMINICAN PRIVATE BANKS IN CHEAP LOANS WHICH THEN SPURRED INVESTMENT. IT WAS NOT THAT SOME DUDE SITTING IN CHICAGO SAID, OH THERE'S A COUNTRY IN WHERE I WANT TO INVEST. POPULAR, BANINTER, ETC... ASKED FOR CHEAP LOANS WHICH THEY GOT. THEY LENT THE MONEY OUT AND VOILA. THE LENDERS TOOK THE RISK OF LENDING TO THAT LITTLE COUNTRY NEXT TO HAITI THAT SEEMS TO BE DOING ALRIGHT... BUT THAT WAS AFTER THEY HAD LENT TO EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. FACE IT. WE ARE NOT SPECIAL, IT WAS JUST THE GLOBAL BOOM. HIPOLITO HAD BAD LUCK.

* While he wants to give credit to Balaguer, fine, but the fact remains that
during this time Leonel efficiently and effectively maximized returns since he maintain and improved the economy. Note all the damage Hippo has been able to do in a 4 year period to DESTROY and RETARD the country while colluding with PRSC. Had Leonel been as bad why did he not destroyed and retarded the country during 1996-2000, why wait?

HE COULDN'T HAVE DESTROYED IT EVEN IF HE WANTED TO. HIPOLITO WAS JUST UNLUCKY, PEOPLE. IS IT HIS FAULT 9/11 HAPPENED LOWERING OUR TOURISM? IS IT HIS FAULT THE US INVADED IRAQ SENDING OIL UP TO THE SKIES? IS IT HIS FAULT THAT LEONEL DID NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO RAT RAMONCITO OUT? NO, RIGHT? BECAUSE HE NEEDED TO GET HIS FOUNDATION FOUNDED WITH BANINTER MONEY. WAS IT HIPOLITO'S FAULT THAT THE CDE HAD TO BE REBOUGHT? I DUNNO, THINK ABOUT. THAT IS JUST THAT START. AND TRUST ME.. I AM NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF DEFENDING HIPOLITO. I'M NEUTRAL AND OBJECTIVE HENCE I SPEAK THE TRUTH. I JUST HATE PEOPLE LIKE LEONEL GETTING FLOWERS FOR STUFF HE DID NOT ACTUALLY DO.

* Fausto, erred in his analysis by citing the creation of Zona Francas as an external factor of investment. This was part and parcel of Leonel's privatization policy in his following the Washington Consensus. Moreover, it was this money that he was able to modernize the Santo Domingo, the capital which Balaguer ignored. I think Fausto also fails to recognize the hardline international campaign Leonel underwent to improved DR's image internationally during those 4 years, compared to the embarrasment we currently endure under Hippo as he colludes with PRSC.


BALAGUER IGNORED THE CAPITAL? EH... OK. WHO BUILT THE TUNNEL OF NUGNEZ DE CACERES? WHO ORIGINALLY HAD THE VISION TO MAKE THE 27? WHO BUILT EL FARO? WHO BUILT EL PUENTE MELLA? WHO BUILT LA LUPERON? THIS IS A JOKE..... BALAGUER DID EVERYTHING.. LEONEL JUST ADDED SOME PAINT ON A HOUSE THAT WAS ALREADY BUILT. PLUS, HE IGNORED ALL THE COUNTRYSIDE. THAT IS SHAMEFUL.
THE ZONA FRANCAS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PRIVATIZATION. I CAN'T EVEN ARGUE THAT POINT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
LEONEL DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO PROMOTE THE DR. HE JUST WANTED HIS STAYS AT THE NEW YORK PALACE AND THE PARIS RITZ. IN ANY CASE, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING TO LAUD, THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE EXPECTED FROM A PRESIDENT. HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING SPECTACULAR IN THAT SENSE. I DO KNOW HE SPENT A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY DINING AND WINING HIS BARRIO FRIENDS ON BANINTER'S PLANE.

* Fausto, recognizes the economic boom, but fails to mention that Leonel actually paid down the debt which Hippo with his collusion with PRSC ballooned.

SO WHAT. HE WAS DUMB. HE COULD HAVE ROLLED OVER THE DEBT AT LOWER INTEREST RATES AND USE THE CASH TO THINK ABOUT THE TYPICAL CAMPESINO WHO HAD NOTHING TO BENEFIT FROM HIS PRESIDENCY. IN ANY CASE, IT WAS NOT THAT MUCH THAT HE PAID BACK. IF I OWE 4BILLION USD AND I PAY BACK 5 MILLION, SURE I PAID BACK, BUT NOT THAT MUCH.

* Fausto, mentions that it is false that Leonel provided stability for risky investments made by banks. This is were his myopic view limits his understanding that an efficient bureacracy translates to enhanced market valued. During 1996-2000 we did not have to pay bribes. There was an actually functional government! Imagine that! Would a bank that would like to invest want to invest in DR now? No, way, because of the very instability exhibited by the current administration. (RE CAFTA:the US is counting on Hippo to be ousted they are just not saying it.)

NOW INVESTORS DON'T EVEN LOOK SOUTH OF THE BORDER. IT'S NOT AN HIPOLITO THING, IT'S A GLOBAL THING UNTIL THE US FIRMS UP EVEN MORE. AND THE BRIBES, WELL, AGAIN, LEONEL HAD IT GOOD. BRIBES WENT AWAY BECAUSE PEME AND ACCOUNT 1401 PAID FOR THEM BEHIND THE SCENES.

* Fausto, erroneously attribute the increase in salary to Balaguer, when in fact this was Leonel's idea to deter corruption by instituting a FOREIGN concept in DR government: Efficiency wages!! This is part of econ 101. If this was Balaguer's doing why were wages not raised sooner, pre-1996, when he had the chance?

FAUSTO DID NOT ATTRIBUTE THAT TO BALAGUER. HE ATTRIBUTED IT TO LEONEL. ONE THING IS TO HAVE EFFICIENCY WAGES, ANOTHER IS TO INSTITUTIONALIZE CORRUPTION. POOR LEONEL WANTED TO MAKE ALL HIS BARRIO BOYS NOUVEAU RICHES... IT WAS TOO MUCH TEMPTATION NOT TO INCREASE THEIR SALARIES.... THE POOR CHANCLETEROS NEEDED THEIR GUCCIS AND IT LOOKED BETTER IF THEY "RECEIVED A HIGHER WAGE" THAN IF THEY OUTRIGHT STOLE. IN THE END, IT'S THE SAME THING. THEY WERE OVERPAID.

* Fausto also fails to mention the fact that Leonel actually DECREASED the size of governement, minimizing BOTELLAS which further increased the efficiency of the government.

HERE I AGREE. FAUSTO DID OMIT THAT. BUT IT WENT AGAINST HIS MAIN POINT. ECONOMICALLY SPEAKING HOWEVER, HE MIGHT HAVE LAID OFF ALL THE REFORMISTAS (THAT BROUGHT HIM TO POWER...BY THE WAY) BUT THE NET EFFECT WAS 0 SINCE HE RAISED THE WAGES OF THOSE THAT STAYED.

It is really sad when a good mind goes to waste. Please don't be fooled.
Both Amory and Fausto should really be doing their homework rather than causing havoc in meeting their families little hidden agenda.

YOU ARE WRONG IN SAYING OUR MINDS GO TO WASTE. WE SIMPLY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND INTERPRET THE FACTS OBJECTIVELY AND IN A DIFFERENT MANNER. WE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO REFLECT WHEN THEY VOTE AND NOT VOTE FOR LEONEL OUT OF ANGER FOR HIPOLITO. THAT IS BAD. THAT IS DUMB. THAT IS SAD. THE BEST CANDIDATE IS EDUARDO ESTRELLA... AND I'M NOT EVEN REFORMISTA AND I KNOW HE IS GOING TO LOSE. BUT STILL, THE EDITORIALS HAVE SAID IT, THOSE THAT MEET HIM SAY IT. BUT ALAS.. PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING LEONEL OUT OF RAGE, NOT BECAUSE OF HIS QUALITIES AND THAT IS OUR MAIN POINT.

Thank you.

Artículo de opinión

[Amory Blaine]

I truly want to see Hipólito out, but am not happy about the return of Leonel. My ideology, which I adopted somewhere around 1994, was that no president that was mediocre or worse deserved a second term. Getting Hipólito out fits with my scheme, but accepting Leonel doesn't. I rather have a bad new guy than see incompetence rewarded with four more years (and I realize that to many Leonel was stelar, but opinions vary).

Many people see in Leonel a charming guy who's part of the same old politics, only bound to get worse. One of the advantages of the PLD's first term was that the party was small and had a tradition of discipline that helped them govern in order. Like suarezn says, if the PLD grows, this advantage is bound to thin out. Anyway, in many areas this discipline helped the PLD greatly, and PLD followers say that this is the only reason that they got the unjust nickname of 'comesolos'.

However, the party wasn't free of corruption. The PEME scandal, vented out after Leonel's term, is marked at RD$400 million. Compare that with the RD$40 million of Pepegate, and you get some perspective of how the PLD came out swinging in its first term. But it is a testament to the good PR tactics of the PLD and the horrible PR tactics of the PRD that Pepegate served as a more damaging tool. Leonel faced the PEME scandal head on, and was boosted from it. Hipólito blundered Pepegate like everything else and is still hurting from it. After all, Pepe Goico was involved in scandals in Leonel's term and Balaguer's. A similar case was the scholarship scandal, where some RD$ 100 million in scholarship funds were handled in an ill manner. The names of the recipients of the scholarships haven't been ousted, to avoid hurting innoncent recipients, but the price tag on each scholarship is high to enough to pay for 4 years doing doctorate work at an Ivy League university. Where did that money go? Various PLD officials were mentioned at the time.

El "Comesolismo", as it has been called, had some aspects that were quite illegal. It wasn't just about a small payroll (which was small in persons, not in pesos) that left out workers. The tactics of the PLD breached many contractual obligations. All governments have done this, but in the other cases most people got a share of the pie and kept quiet. Balaguer sorted out many projects among a handful of contractors and cronies (Guin(?) Moya, 'Bebecito' Martínez, Pedro Haché, etc), while Leonel seemed to route all projects through one person, Diandino Peña.

Also, Balaguer's cronies handled the easy technical (though profitable) jobs, such as the new Postal Service offices, "La Plaza De La Salud", housing projects and urban streets. These projects are cash cows, easy to build compared to other things. Balaguer still put the complex jobs up for contest. Many engineers got a hand in things by winning legally contracts to build dams, energy plants and irrigation canals. These projects usually involve partnerships between local and foreign companies, and are in consequence more transparent. Many people will dispute this, but the PLD government took steps back in this process, despite appearances to the contrary. One of the biggest companies in electrical contracting today arose during the PLD term and as it turns out, it is headed by a former top official during Leonel's term. To those looking, this is a sign of the same old politics, but sugar-coated. The projects started during Leonel's term are dubious to say the least.

Leonel also failed to boost the provinces, which cost his party the 2000 and 2002 elections. The PLD is strong in Santo Domingo, where Leonel endeavoured to create his vision of "un Nueva York chiquito". Outside, it's quite easy for the PLD to lose ground.

In my opinion. If the 2003 crisis hadn't taken place, Hipólito could be spitting at cameramen and Leonel would have a tough time beating him. It is only because of the PRD's gross mismanagement of the crisis that Leonel has one cheek on the seat.

In closing, you can still contest that Leonel is the lesser evil. But many people have cause to not be in love with the guy. Mushy 's' don't make the guy Sean Connery!