Gold in the DR - Page 3

suarezn · #21 11-08-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dms3611

Imagine an existing ecological nightmare that would NEVER be cleaned up in any significant way unless the Dominican government got someone to buy into a SERIOUS "clean up" as well as to deal with extracting their gold from sulphide tailings.....this is not general unsophisticated hard rock gold processing as it was when the mine was first established so long ago......

What's your point? You lost me...

dms3611 · #22 11-10-2009, 11:47 AM

For some reason, I get the impression when I read many of these posts, that some folks believe that running these gold mines is as easy as opening up the ground with a front end loader and huge nuggets of gold roll out into the bucket....and that anyone here in this country can do it. That is just not the case.

One important reason why the DR Govt. did not/does not mine/process the gold and "keep it for the country" is that they do not (by themselves) have the expertise to mine the gold out of the sulphide tailings that were left behind as a result of the previous mining efforts at Rosario. Additionally, that area was also left with a huge ecological mess that the DR Govt. was not prepared financially to clean up. So, in order to induce someone with that expertise to come into your country and produce employment, clean up your mess, and take the risk of producing gold in a very unique processing method...you have to öffer them the incentives necessary to get the job done. Thats what the DR govt did. It was a solid decision. There was no longer an "imagining" a best case scenario when an actual worst case scenario was staring them in the face.

ExtremeR · #23 11-10-2009, 06:14 PM

While dms3611 has a point, that contract is way too steep, how about sharing 20% of ANY profits with the DR government?? that would have been a good business deal too. Somebody in the government received a huge amount of money for that deal to go through.

suarezn · #24 11-11-2009, 01:18 AM

The DR does not have the expertise, but expertise can be bought for a price. Again The DR had the power in this negotiation as we have the one thing that cannot be made, learned, trained, etc...GOLD. Barrick is not the only company in the world that can do this.

Note that I'm not against Barrick in principle, I am against this egregious contract that has been signed which has the appearance that someone (lots of people probably) got paid to screw us over royally. It may not mean anything to you guys, but it means a lot to those of us who are from Cotui and are going to be left with possibly a huge mess of a contamination (Let's be honest they are not really going to clean up everything once the gold runs out) and nothing to show for but a few hundred jobs for some years.

There was no need to give up everything to induce Barrick to come and mine here because again it's not like they can just find gold in such quantity just anywhere in the world. There were many different ways this could have been structured where Barrick could still make a good return and The DR get the bulk of the profits (as it should), but corruption rules so what can we expect.

dms3611 · #25 11-11-2009, 02:19 PM

"The DR does not have the expertise, but expertise can be bought for a price. ""

And that's exactly what the DR did........

Again The DR had the power in this negotiation as we have the one thing that cannot be made, learned, trained, etc...GOLD.

.....with lots of it in gold sulphide tailings............with an ecological mess to boot.....

Barrick is not the only company in the world that can do this.

....certainly you are correct....and since it is so easy to do why weren't there hundreds of gold mining companies lined up to do it?(and there weren't)....

Note that I'm not against Barrick in principle, I am against this egregious contract that has been signed which has the appearance that someone (lots of people probably) got paid to screw us over royally. It may not mean anything to you guys, but it means a lot to those of us who are from Cotui and are going to be left with possibly a huge mess of a contamination (Let's be honest they are not really going to clean up everything once the gold runs out) and nothing to show for but a few hundred jobs for some years.

....lets face it...an ecological mess already existed well before PlacerDome showed up (who was bought out by Barrick and who then entered into a JV with GoldCorp Inc in order to have the finances possible to make the more than a billion dollar investment being made to even contemplate this endeavor)

There was no need to give up everything to induce Barrick to come and mine here because again it's not like they can just find gold in such quantity just anywhere in the world. There were many different ways this could have been structured where Barrick could still make a good return and The DR get the bulk of the profits (as it should), but corruption rules so what can we expect.

Therefore, you and Cotui and everyone in the DR that understands just how much Barrick and GoldCorp, Inc will now make on their tremendous "screwing" of the DR are in GREAT LUCK! Just get your money together and head off to the stock exchange since both of these companies are public companies (ABX and TSX) and YOU get the bulk of the profits that the DR government wasn't smart enough to negotiate (since all those earnings are going to make all the stockholders RICH)!

It's just that simple. The DR government has given you the power to become wealthy off of their shortsightedness.

PS ....and by the way - just to make sure those on this board that do not know me wonder - I am not employed by, never have done work with, nor have any dealings contemplated in the future with Barrick and/or GoldCorp). But I do know what this government faced with the aftermath of the Rosario Mine.....

suarezn · #26 11-11-2009, 06:46 PM

DMS: I know you're trying to justify this through SOME logic, but...

- The ecological mess has been there for more than 20 years now. Nobody really cared that much about it except for those people affected and mother nature was / is cleaning it up albeit very slowly. The clean up that Barrick WAS supposed to provide was going to cost some 30+ million USD. I say WAS because with the renegotiation of the contract apparently they are not even on the hook for that anymore and even to clean up their own mess when they leave.

- If the price to buy that expertise is to give up everything? Is that a fair price to you?

- Cotuisanos would love to load up on Barrick stock, but you see we have more pressing things to spend what little money we get from the menial jobs offered locally. Things such as food, water, electricity, etc...At the current price of about 43 dollars a share one share represents a large percentage of that salary.

I think you're misunderstanding my comments BTW. I don't blame Barrick at all on this. Heck if I could find a fool that would give me all their gold without me having to pay anything for it for the next six years and maybe never I would take that deal in a NY minute. My disgust is towards the Dominican government who would agree to this and the obvious payoffs that are occurring here to continue to erode our position in this "partnership".

Could you possibly find a reason (other than the powers that be got THEIR piece of the pie up front) why in the world would The DR government agree to renegotiate the terms of the agreement (which were not favorable to begin with) to basically give up whatever little they were supposed to get for nothing in return and specially since the price of gold has almost quadrupled since the original agreement.

dms3611 · #27 11-11-2009, 09:51 PM

Theres nothing left to say ..... your knowledge and experience with respect to metals mining and investment (and in particular this mining project and its negotiations over the past years) appears to be rock solid.

suarezn · #28 11-11-2009, 11:41 PM

Let's agree to disagree as obviously your interest lies on the complete opposite side of mine and definitely not seeing my point...

suarezn · #29 11-19-2009, 11:35 AM

What the experts are saying (Sorry in Spanish):

Expertos: patrimonio común fue regalado a minera Barrica - Hoy Digital

I didn't realize that they are not even obligated to put up the money they promised for the cleanup. They are only obligated to match whatever the DR government puts up which we know will be zero...

...and of course Barrick says they are not getting any special privileges...

Minera rechaza que el Estado la haya privilegiado - Hoy Digital