NY times article - Ramona Hernández

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Chris

Awe geez! can we stay away from the black thing just for a moment? Pretty pleeeze!

Thank you Chris. People need to stop focusing on color and start focusing on abilities and character. Too much bullsh1t going on right now.......and it didn't say that ALL Dominicans are black, it (wrongly) stated that the majority are black

[GilbertArenas]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

Thank you Chris. People need to stop focusing on color and start focusing on abilities and character. Too much bullsh1t going on right now.......and it didn't say that ALL Dominicans are black, it (wrongly) stated that the majority are black

Careful with calling a Dominican black. LOL.

This reminds me of taking the SATs in Santo Domingo when I was a kid. Every single US standardized test we took where we had to fill in race there was a 10-15 minute fight where Dominicans explained to the teachers why they were white, and not black or hispanic.

The ruling by the teacher was as follows (just to shut people up), if you think you're white and have a red passport (Dominican passport), sorry you're hispanic. If you think you're white and have a blue passport (American passport) feel free to put white. If you are dark skinned and don't think you're black put hispanic.

Race is very tricky with Dominicans, just don't debate it......there's no point.

[mondongo]

Originally Posted by DominicanScotty

I understand your point, and the point is well taken. However, NOT all Dominicans are black. That is very inaccurate assessment of our race. Iam half Irish (father's side) and white Dominican (mother's side). My mother was almost as white as I am and I am pretty daggone white. So, please do not judge Dominicans by being soley black. However, I appreciate your post, it was written with the right spirit.

Deelt did not say that ALL Dominicans are black. You did not read her post carefully. BTW, in the USA, most Dominicans WILL be considered black. That's just our tough luck here in EEUU.

[Chris]

OK, now, does anyone have anything to say about the original profile on Ramona Hernández that appeared in the New York Times on Tuesday - and the conclusions that this article came to. The word black is banned ferGod's-sakes! I thought there were some intelligent and enlightening discussions so far, could we keep it intelligent? And in terms of filling in the forms in the US, I used to say that I am first generation African American White! Who was going to argue! Make up a title... nobody is going to challenge you - they are all too scared of the issue.

[mondongo]

I just read the article. It is a profile of a Dominican girl done good.

To paraphrase her: Dominicans in NYC are amongst the poorest. It is a sign of a struggle to gain a foothold. They struggle because Dominicans are (mostly) blacks who can't speak good English.

Read em' and weep, Chris.....them's the facts about your arctile...

[Lesley D]

I just read the article and she is exemplary in many ways but the question is how can the community benefit from her as an example? A key excerpt from the article is as follows:

Talk she does, moving freely between Spanish and English. Politicians, journalists, community leaders, fellow academics, the president of the Dominican Republic - they all want her take on things.

This proves many of our views that language barriers must be overcome if personal and professional success is to be achieved (without cultural loss). Those who insist on remaining unilingual in the "enclave" and elsewhere really need to understand this but I am not sure they are listening.

Anyway thanks for sharing the article. Looking forward to the input from other posters.


-Lesley D-

[deelt]

First, I think people are giving more credit to the Height than they should. Why? GENTRIFICATION. There are more white Americans moving in and a TON of Mexicans. As the economic power of younger Dom-Am generations increases, they are migrating out. Thus, this idea of the Height's as an enclave is more of a transitional idealogical take in my opinion.

To address Gilbert's point, I am not advocating whether Dominicans should or should not move back. I am just stating that few in fact actually DO move back DR. The most recent calculations from the new INS bureau show that the percentage is in fact miniscule. The thing is that they want to move but it often comes at the cost of losing their children, grandchildren etc. And those that do move to the DR often see themselves as having to move back to the US because they have run out of money and do not really feel accepted as a Dominican any more. Many feel like they get used and hoodwinked like any other tourist. This is just from my experience talking with older folks that have "retired" and moved back to the US.

The fact that these people live in the US for many, many years 15-20+ years with the mentality that they will move back to DR prevents them from actually partaking in voting decisions or being active members of society. Lesley, this is more of the point I was trying to get into. People come here to raise their kids but they DON'T CARE that their kids are getting into drugs, crime, prostitution, etc. and are being exposed to these things in the schools, the streets, their very neighborhoods. What I mean by don't care is that they don't protest to their political leadership, they don't VOTE, and are not active in the school system. This translates to a hands off policy to rearing (sp?) their kids because they feel that the US system is adequate and why change it since they are moving back to DR...why should they care what happends? This is not an issue of accepting to let people move out of the US or not, rather their needs to be a realization that they must take part in the society they live in while they are there...how ever long.

We are losing this next generation of kids to the streets...but this can be avoided if people cared enough to change and effect change. This means that we need to take a more nationwide approach rather than focus all resources to 20 blocks in Manhattan. Dominicans are EVERYWHERE in the US.

Peace.

Originally Posted by Lesley D

* I think it is important to distinguish between an immigrant community (enclave) and let's say an exile community (enclave). My favorite example of an "enclave" comparable to Washington Heights is Calle Ocho in Miami. I think it's one of the biggest Cuban enclaves in the US and probably formed from same ideology as Washington Heights. Enclaves are usually a comfort zone or a cushion for immigrants of the same culture. All their needs (especially language) are met without having to step out of the unique world they created for themselves. However, I believe immigrant communities i.e. Washington Heights are formed because people have chosen a new home abroad and with the hopes of bettering their lives and those of the future generations. Now if Dominicans are only moving to the "infamous enclave" to make enough money to survive and eventually go back to the DR one day is that not an exile community (enclave) mentality thus counterproductive? The reason why I mention this is because the fundamental difference between an exile community and an immigrant community is that people who live in exile want to go back to their country and they hope that their life abroad is temporary but an immigrant community has chosen a new home abroad in order to prosper. If they do go back to their country of origin it's usually in their later years. Deelt, to your point this is possibly why you are saying that success is limited in examining Dominicans as a whole in the US because of the mentality or ideology behind limiting their lives to "the Heights" etc. Correct?

-Lesley D-

[DominicanScotty]

Originally Posted by mondongo

Deelt did not say that ALL Dominicans are black. You did not read her post carefully. BTW, in the USA, most Dominicans WILL be considered black. That's just our tough luck here in EEUU.

Thank you for that. However I did not intend to write that she said ALL Dominicans are black. Hmmmm, if I made that insinuation I apologize. Her point was well made and well taken. However once again the popular belief is that Dominicans are black. I am simply saying that I am white and I am not the only one! Have a happy holiday!!!

[DominicanScotty]

Originally Posted by GilbertArenas

Careful with calling a Dominican black. LOL.

This reminds me of taking the SATs in Santo Domingo when I was a kid. Every single US standardized test we took where we had to fill in race there was a 10-15 minute fight where Dominicans explained to the teachers why they were white, and not black or hispanic.

The ruling by the teacher was as follows (just to shut people up), if you think you're white and have a red passport (Dominican passport), sorry you're hispanic. If you think you're white and have a blue passport (American passport) feel free to put white. If you are dark skinned and don't think you're black put hispanic.

Race is very tricky with Dominicans, just don't debate it......there's no point.

Very good point!!!! My father, being of Irish background never accepted the fact that his wife and mother to his children was hispanic. LOL..we were raised as little white kids! Hey, I am damn proud of my Irish blood too. But I get a bit razed when some people of dark skin refer to me as a 'cracker'. That happened a few times in the Dominican Republic and I cussed them out in Spanish, they sort of got confused. Chaulk it up to their ignorance by judging a book by it's cover :-)

[deelt]

Scotty,

First you did not make an insinuation. It was an outright statement. I did not mention anything relating to color it was a quote from the article. The fact that a large majority of Dominicans are people of color (that in the US is often just caterorized as black) is not a popular belief. It is a fact.

You are half white, from Irish descent. That too is a fact. This cuts your genetic "Dominican" make-up to half.

I wish I had a dime for everytime that a Dominican highlighted the whiteness of their features: how light their skin is, how fine their features are, how straight their hair is, or whatever caucasian feature they have...

I feel that when people talk this way it's just seems like they want to be congratulated: Well then, CONGRATULATIONS on your whiteness. It's great to hear that you are really, really white. You are ultimate proof that we can in fact improve the race. Good thing you mom married your dad. Make sure you marry a dark Dominican to help the other 80% out just make sure they are not too dark because then you will have a heck of a time making sure your kids/grandkids don't have start from scratch. Geez!

The article is talking about the EFFECT and LEVELS of acceptance of Dominicans in NY and American society, in general. The fact is color is an issue and there are measurable consequences-- Dominicans have the lowest income per capita among Latinos in NY and among the lowest in the country.
You can be as white as you want to be, but this is very real reality for the MAJORITY of Dominicans in the states, who happen to be people of color.

Again, Congrats!
D

Originally Posted by DominicanScotty

Thank you for that. However I did not intend to write that she said ALL Dominicans are black. Hmmmm, if I made that insinuation I apologize. Her point was well made and well taken. However once again the popular belief is that Dominicans are black. I am simply saying that I am white and I am not the only one! Have a happy holiday!!!