a question about dominican heritage

[Chip]

Originally Posted by contasm

I did not want to touch this one with a ten-foot pole !!!! But I’m glad Mr. Lu did, and very diplomatically I must add.

Yes.. A revision of “DR” or “Hispaniola Island” or “Name given to Island before Spaniards” history is definitely required by Tony. The concepts of “first Dominicans”, “real Dominicans” are delicate perceptions that merit discussion and study from many different angles. Emphasizing the European part of the
Dominican equation seems to be the “preferred” one, but again, it is just one of many that deserves a closer look. Perhaps some DR1 “anthropologists” or/and “historians” might want to contribute to this thread.

It isa simple, the first real "Dominicans" were the Tainos just like the first Americans were the native indigenous peoples. Gradually over time they have been assimilated into the imported population of Spanish and Africans, etc, ie the were never wiped out as has been historiucally claimed(see Tainos in the DR thread for more info, incl DNA results).

At this point a Dominican for the most part is tri-racial entity with all of the appurtant cultural and linguisitc influences as well.

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by Chip

It isa simple, the first real "Dominicans" were the Tainos just like the first Americans were the native indigenous peoples. Gradually over time they have been assimilated into the imported population of Spanish and Africans, etc, ie the were never wiped out as has been historiucally claimed(see Tainos in the DR thread for more info, incl DNA results).

At this point a Dominican for the most part is tri-racial entity with all of the appurtant cultural and linguisitc influences as well.

I agree with most of what you said accept the whole "first Dominican" thing. Tainos were never Dominicans. They never knew the concept of nationalism and boundaries and territories as we know them. Dominican in a sense as we know the DR today, which encompasses their land, but the concept of Dominicaness didn't exist until 1844.


Mr. Lu

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lu

I agree with most of what you said accept the whole "first Dominican" thing. Tainos were never Dominicans. They never knew the concept of nationalism and boundaries and territories as we know them. Dominican in a sense as we know the DR today, which encompasses their land, but the concept of Dominicaness didn't exist until 1844.


Mr. Lu

I am using the term "Dominican" in the same way "American" is used to describe the first inhabitants of what is now the Americas.

By the way, I think it can be proven that the term Dominican was used long before 1844, as this a term rooted in "Santo Domingo", the name of the colony for many centuries.

[wuarhat]

Originally Posted by Chip

While it's a good thing to know one's heritage, I personally am weary of people claiming a people as "their" people - we are one people, the human race.

Some of you may think that is an innocuous term, but then again, some of you didn't have the opportunity to grow up in the deep south of the US and hear how this term is used. The bottom line this so called love of "one's people" has what has sustained racism over the centuries - it is a simple fact of history and can easily be verified that those societies that historically have used terms such as these have been the most racist and have committed the the most heinous racially motivated crimes, etc.(Germany, Japa, Bosnia, etc, etc, ad nauseum)

Why can't people think out of the box for once and why do people have such a hard time recognizing this?

Originally Posted by bob saunders

you are assuming that every Dominican has African Heritage; most do, but not all.

What does heritage mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heritage

The opinion that the African continent is the soil in which the initial seed of humanity germinated, is very widely held. I believe it to be highly likely that this opinion is indeed a fact, and therefore all people, Dominicans included, have African heritage. We are all one people. However the routes that each individual’s ancestors took to get us all where we are today, are vastly different, and the study of these migrations must be a very interesting pastime.

My answer to Tony’s question is yes, you can call your self Spanish. I remember many years ago my mother telling me reluctantly about my heritage. I believe she was very wary of the "our people" phenomenon expressed above by Chip. Her parents and my father’s parents were all born in the United States. Her father’s parents were born in Italy. Her mother’s parents were from Pennsylvania, and their ancestors probably came there from Holland more than a century ago. My father’s mother had French ancestry and his father had Irish ancestry both also probably from more than a century ago. Based on this rather vague distant conversation of less than an hour, and the few things I’ve read about the dawn of history and subsequent spread of the species, I call myself North American, European, and ultimatley African, so you would have no argument from me.

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by Chip

I am using the term "Dominican" in the same way "American" is used to describe the first inhabitants of what is now the Americas.

By the way, I think it can be proven that the term Dominican was used long before 1844, as this a term rooted in "Santo Domingo", the name of the colony for many centuries.

I understand how you are using the terms, I am merely saying that it is incorrect to do so. "Native Americans" aren't American. Not because I am excluding them from the fabric of America, but because they were their before the political affiliation and therefore they are not Americans. It is a name we use to classify, but it is incorrect. How can you be something that wasn't a reality when you were alive? How can they be Americans, if America hadn't been American? Add to the fact that they didn't choose to be classified as Americans, but told so...

Furthermore, I agree, the word Dominican can be traced back a few hundred years. It is part of the religious heritage of the DR, but it doesn't reflect the value that was placed on the term after 1844, meaning that the Taino's weren't Dominican, although they lived in what would be the DR. Dominican Republic/Dominican is a socio-political term associated with a certain group of people and ideals that, in my opinion, the Tainos don't represent. And add to that the fact that they mostly all died out about 50 years after Columbus came, so....that's that.

Also, were is the OP? These topics tend to get good, but we need to OP to put his two cents in so that we don't get too off topic.


Mr. Lu

[Chip]

Mr Lu

You point may make sense in Spanish but for the fact that it is normal and considered correct in English to associate people's with the modern name geographical region they lived in be it hundreds or thousands of years ago, there are many examples to be found in historical and anthroplogical references.

Furtheremore, while it may be nice to use a more "valid" term, this is typically all but impossible in most cases, due to the loss of the language.

Therefore, there is nothing incorrect aboust saying the "early Domincans" were Tainos, even though it may be unattractive to you personally.

Here are just a few examples:

Germania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Early Americans Arrived Thousands of Years Earlier Than Previously Believed
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2570.asp
African people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by Chip

Mr Lu

You point may make sense in Spanish but for the fact that it is normal and considered correct in English to associate people's with the modern name geographical region they lived in be it hundreds or thousands of years ago, there are many examples to be found in historical and anthroplogical references.

Furtheremore, while it may be nice to use a more "valid" term, this is typically all but impossible in most cases, due to the loss of the language.

Therefore, there is nothing incorrect aboust saying the "early Domincans" were Tainos, even though it may be unattractive to you personally.

Here are just a few examples:

Germania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Early Americans Arrived Thousands of Years Earlier Than Previously Believed
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2570.asp
African people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll cede to your lingual distinction as you've differentiated between English and Spanish, though I'll reserve the right to negate the validity of the subject matter in Spanish.

Nice volley. This round to Chip.



Mr. Lu

[contasm]

Originally Posted by contasm

Yes.. A revision of “DR” or “Hispaniola Island” or “Name given to Island before Spaniards” history is definitely required by Tony.

Good civilized exchange by Mr Lu and Chip;

That’s why I said <“Name given to Island before Spaniards“> to reference the geographical location today occupied by/known as Dominican Republic.

It seems to be matter of labelling/giving a name to a group of people depending on the name a place had AT the moment of labelling.

Ok. back to topic.. Tony.. Where are U ?

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by contasm

Ok. back to topic.. Tony.. Where are U ?

Yeah this dood Tony needs to show up. You just can't disappear on your topic like that...

[ohomem_t]

I agree with Mr. Lu that the natives of the New World weren't called Dominicans, Americans, or any other name given by Europeans. I know that there is much Taino influence in the culture of D.R., as well as people who have Taino ancestry. However, there are so many ignorant people nowadays that believe only what they want to believe, that Dominicans are either only Black, or a mix of African & Spanish. These people want to believe that Dominicans make up the Taino theory just to cover up the fact that they're ashamed of their African ancestry, which isn't the case. For instance, when I post on Yahoo Answers and ask a question about Dominicans and Taino ancestry, I get answers saying that they only have African and Spanish roots. The dark-skinned people of D.R. could be either ones with Native Caribbean or Taino roots, or those with African roots, or it could be a mix of the two. There are people in my family who appear to have Native Indian or Caribbean roots, but not African, since they have straight hair.
People should understand that the D.R. is a mix of all three ethnicities, not just two. If you go to a Caribbean island called Dominica, then you can expect to find a majority of African-based people with no connection whatsoever to the Spanish culture. But if referring to the Dominican Republic, there are three or more ethnicities, with a culture and language that originates from the Spaniards.

Tony