a question about dominican heritage

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by ohomem_t

I agree with Mr. Lu that the natives of the New World weren't called Dominicans, Americans, or any other name given by Europeans. I know that there is much Taino influence in the culture of D.R., as well as people who have Taino ancestry. However, there are so many ignorant people nowadays that believe only what they want to believe, that Dominicans are either only Black, or a mix of African & Spanish. These people want to believe that Dominicans make up the Taino theory just to cover up the fact that they're ashamed of their African ancestry, which isn't the case. For instance, when I post on Yahoo Answers and ask a question about Dominicans and Taino ancestry, I get answers saying that they only have African and Spanish roots. The dark-skinned people of D.R. could be either ones with Native Caribbean or Taino roots, or those with African roots, or it could be a mix of the two. There are people in my family who appear to have Native Indian or Caribbean roots, but not African, since they have straight hair.
People should understand that the D.R. is a mix of all three ethnicities, not just two. If you go to a Caribbean island called Dominica, then you can expect to find a majority of African-based people with no connection whatsoever to the Spanish culture. But if referring to the Dominican Republic, there are three or more ethnicities, with a culture and language that originates from the Spaniards.

Tony

Sir,

You need a quick history lesson, or maybe just a change in perspective. Your post demonstrates your bias, and "ignorance" on the subject. Honestly, just read up on the first 100 years on Hispaniola. The genocide of 95% of the Taino population could provide you with the correct historical perspective as to the truth of Dominican ethnic make-up. Though your post shows "glimpses" of truth, I, and many like me, could argue that in asking about your heritage you have more defended a stagnant argument instead of internalizing a different possibility.

Just an opinion



Mr. Lu

[contasm]

Originally Posted by ohomem_t

.... But if referring to the Dominican Republic, there are three or more ethnicities, with a culture and language that originates from the Spaniards.

Tony

Well, this statement merits some comments, specifically to the culture item. Saying that current Dominican culture originates from the Spaniards, could indeed throw this thread into havoc
Perhaps, politically correctly, at least, Tony could have stated that the three or more ethnicities he is taking about are responsible for current general Dominican culture.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lu

Sir,

You need a quick history lesson, or maybe just a change in perspective. Your post demonstrates your bias, and "ignorance" on the subject. Honestly, just read up on the first 100 years on Hispaniola. The genocide of 95% of the Taino population could provide you with the correct historical perspective as to the truth of Dominican ethnic make-up. Though your post shows "glimpses" of truth, I, and many like me, could argue that in asking about your heritage you have more defended a stagnant argument instead of internalizing a different possibility.

Just an opinion



Mr. Lu

No offense, but the above statement is false. We have current DNA evidence of Dominicans that verifies the Tainos were never obliterated, only that they assimilated in to the general popultion - fact.

Please see the discussion in the "Tainos in DR" thread.

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by Chip

No offense, but the above statement is false. We have current DNA evidence of Dominicans that verifies the Tainos were never obliterated, only that they assimilated in to the general popultion - fact.

Please see the discussion in the "Tainos in DR" thread.

I never said obliterated. Never said disappeared But my assertion that a large percentage of Tainos was killed in the first 100 years is correct. What I was trying to convey with that statement wasn't a reference to the statistic in itself, but explaining the falsehood of calling oneself more Taino than African when the Taino presence was diminished through death, etc, in such a short time. Meaning, as a biological make up you would be more African than Taino because the African presence was long term. DNA wise and culturally and historically I am not implying that Tainos don't make up part of the cultural fabric, I am just arguing that it doesn't make up as large a part as some would argue and would then consider it a fallacy to argue that you are more Taino than African. It's not possible.

The Taino presence is "minimal" (I'll explain later) after 500 years. But I'll read the thread. At least this is my opinion.


Cheers,


Mr. Lu

[contasm]

3 weeks ago I wrote this little comment regarding one of many Taino issues in DR (and DR1.com ).

Old terms : Black + White = Mulato, Mestizo + Blanco = Blanco..

Originally Posted by contasm

...Nowadays, we hear of “Indio Oscuro” (dark Indian) and “Indio lavado” (washed out Indian) but it seems that “politically correctness” has made a joke of their real origins. It makes no sense that “Indio Oscuro” is the result of Mulato and Black; given the fact that there’s no “Indio” neither in Mulato nor in Black. Perhaps, the result of Trujillo’s or Balaguer’s intention on “whitening” the nomenclature used to designate different shades of skin color...

The Taino genetical contribution to today’s Dominican makeup is indeed negligible, but how should that minimal presence be stated when referring to the general make up of today’s Dominican ? Caution !!! Delicate answer required here; given the exaltation the word “Taino” brings to Dominican society.

[Chip]

Hey guys a word of advice, this is a "western" oriented forum and just because you guys vehemently disagree about the Tainos (a la "porque no") has nothing to do with the facts.

You need to understand this isn't something up to conjecture, or where one's "credentials" are enough to convince people (such as is all to common here in the DR) we are talking about cold hard fact.s There is no doubt that pure blooded Tainos existed until the late 1800's in quisqueya.

Again, phrases like "just because" and like I hear much too often here "porque no" don't(no vale) fly here, sorry but true.

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by Chip

Hey guys a word of advice, this is a "western" oriented forum and just because you guys vehemently disagree about the Tainos (a la "porque no") has nothing to do with the facts.

You need to understand this isn't something up to conjecture, or where one's "credentials" are enough to convince people (such as is all to common here in the DR) we are talking about cold hard fact.s There is no doubt that pure blooded Tainos existed until the late 1800's in quisqueya.

Again, phrases like "just because" and like I hear much too often here "porque no" don't(no vale) fly here, sorry but true.

Who's left anything up to conjecture? Who has relied on the "just because" argument? Who has used credentials as a way to argue something? No one is arguing that Tainos never existed or that they played a role in DR culture etc. The argument has shifted to the "percentage" of Tainos as part of the overall makeup, which I am arguing, though existent, was minimal at most. What I have continually argued is that intermixing between Dominican/Spanish/African
was more the norm and in larger numbers than was mixing with Tainos, because there were "no" Tainos. (Notice the quotations around NO)

As for the "pure blooded" Tainos into the 1800's I'd like to see where you got that from? i.e. your reference. Can you send me the link? Not that I don't trust your argument, I just like to see where you read it so I can continue reading on it. It helps me understand where you come from and helps me build a better argument.

And P.S., no Wiki references please. Thanks.



Mr. Lu

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lu

As for the "pure blooded" Tainos into the 1800's I'd like to see where you got that from? i.e. your reference. Can you send me the link? Not that I don't trust your argument, I just like to see where you read it so I can continue reading on it. It helps me understand where you come from and helps me build a better argument.

And P.S., no Wiki references please. Thanks.

Mr. Lu

I will get back with you on this - I need to consult the experts, Baracutei and Dr. Lynn Guitar.

[Mr. Lu]

Originally Posted by Chip

I will get back with you on this - I need to consult the experts, Baracutei and Dr. Lynn Guitar.

Patiently waiting your response.

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by Chip

There is no doubt that pure blooded Tainos existed until the late 1800's in quisqueya.

I have followed the thread "Tainos in DR" also and don't recall anything that Baracutay or Professor Guitar wrote indicating this. It's such a long thread to go over and I could be wrong.....I also await.