Dominican History and heritage

[Chip]

Originally Posted by AmericanSentiment

I would love to know the sources and historians for this information.

Also someone posted to close this thread, I don't see any reason to close.. My intention is not cause a fight but to learn more about the Dominican history. No insult to anyone if you are offended

Contact Jorge at EstevezJ@si.edu.

Also, the Taino thread discusses a lot of the information.

[AmericanSentiment]

This thread is no insult to anyone, I am not sure why someone should feel insulted.
Afro,white Dominicans, mix Dominicans I like them all, its no insult I am not sure why anyone feel threaten when I mentioned African/ Dominican. But I love the culture & people but like to know more on its history.
Thanks for all the feedback & information I appreciate it. I also plan a visit next month.
I have a little more info on the readings I posted.
I will try to post as soon as I get a hold of them.

[AmericanSentiment]

Originally Posted by Chip

Contact Jorge at EstevezJ@si.edu.

Also, the Taino thread discusses a lot of the information.

Thanks for the contact. I appreciate it

[Swdee]

Originally Posted by suarezn

...and the people who seem to worry so much about race are the people who come from other countries where racism is a way of life.

Dominicans don't worry so much about this...yes we may say "I'm not black, I'm indio claro...", but it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Most of our families are mixed (i.e. in my family alone we run the gamut from very white, Scandinavian look alike to very dark, just came from Congo types)...and we all like each other, get along and race is never an issue.

i don't know what country you have visited, but it is not the dominican republic.
color is important in the dominican republic. i have noticed it on the way people (even my own family) treat people of a darker shade. dominican women hate to wear their hair curly (since it is associated with the darker complexion), many don't even go to the beach because they are afraid to turn darker. my sister has even mentioned how she doesn't wanna marry un PRIETO, one of the many ways they call dark skin people.

i have also read numerous newspaper articles where they discuss racism in the island, and mention the racism experienced by blacks. i remember one in which a black person described one night he went to a club and was denied entry while people of a lighter complexion where allowed in.

[frank recktenwald]

Originally Posted by Swdee

i don't know what country you have visited, but it is not the dominican republic.
color is important in the dominican republic. i have noticed it on the way people (even my own family) treat people of a darker shade. dominican women hate to wear their hair curly (since it is associated with the darker complexion), many don't even go to the beach because they are afraid to turn darker. my sister has even mentioned how she doesn't wanna marry un PRIETO, one of the many ways they call dark skin people.

i have also read numerous newspaper articles where they discuss racism in the island, and mention the racism experienced by blacks. i remember one in which a black person described one night he went to a club and was denied entry while people of a lighter complexion where allowed in.

This is everywhere in the New World and this goes back to the time of slavery. Another book for the list "Caribbean" by James A. Michener

[Mujermaravilla]

Originally Posted by Swdee

i don't know what country you have visited, but it is not the dominican republic.
color is important in the dominican republic. i have noticed it on the way people (even my own family) treat people of a darker shade. dominican women hate to wear their hair curly (since it is associated with the darker complexion), many don't even go to the beach because they are afraid to turn darker. my sister has even mentioned how she doesn't wanna marry un PRIETO, one of the many ways they call dark skin people.

i have also read numerous newspaper articles where they discuss racism in the island, and mention the racism experienced by blacks. i remember one in which a black person described one night he went to a club and was denied entry while people of a lighter complexion where allowed in.

I think it is hard to generalize whenever you are talking about a people. my experience as a dominican is the same as Swdee's. In my family there is really no distinction between light and dark, pelo bueno, pelo malo. But I also know that the "upper" class is very racist. I guess it all depends who you associate with. One thing I do know is that in school, well at least the school that I went to, they teach about all races and how we as a people are a combination. some have more some have less.

[bob saunders]

Originally Posted by bachatony1

What does that mean? All African blacks look alike too? It's a whole continent, you know.

Anyway, I taught english to a 15 yr old dominican girl in the states and she told my wife and I (both black) that her father told her she could date whoever she wanted as long as he wasn't black. When we explained to her that she had some african heritage, her automatic response was, "eeewww, their dirty"

I guess the problem with the african perception is in the U.S. in the black community also as one poster mentioned. I am of a darker complexion. When I lived in the south, my complexion was never an issue, but when I moved further north, I was dark-skinned and catch every joke about being "african" as if it's an insult or something.

Kinky hair, broad nose, thick lips, dark skin. Of Course Africa is a big continent with lots of variety. Maybe the Dominican girl you taught doesn't have some African Heritage, how do you know, after all African looking might be something else.

[PICHARDO]

Originally Posted by Bayx-**

A lot of Dominicans do have a problem with their heritage. They don’t want to admit that there are some African roots in their heritage. The majority think of themselves as mulato Indian & and white mix. If they are just Indian & white mix….how comes there is so many African look alike?

Pichardo this question is for you?

Isn't it true that Trujillo gave the Jewish some land in Puerto Plata because he wanted the race to mix with white….he hated his skin color and also hated that his grandmother was black?

Yes and no, Trujillo used the Evian conference to tilt political favor to his then falling of grace prestige within the international opinion. The conference offered a way to boost the political stance with European leaders to a point. Also he saw in this a good opportunity to whiten the population that was beginning to show the traits of Haitian-Dominican intermarriage to some degree. Nobody knows if in fact he hated his skin color, but one thing is sure, Trujillo never loathed his family one bit.

I saw a documentary years ago on the Christopher colon issue. At that time there was no evidence that his bones were kept in DR as Spain claims they have the bones also. If both countries claim they have his bones how are they going to prove it. There is no scientific evidence to prove that either country have his bones.

Is very simple, the box containing his bones had the engravings done at the time his remains were buried away. Why keep the box and switch bones, when you can just take the box and bones as well? The simplest answer is the logical one: He never left the DR and his box... Spain got bones of somebody else but Colon's!!!! It's like stealing gum and switching the wrappers for no practical use!!!

[PICHARDO]

Originally Posted by Chip

The fact is Pichardo is wrong in his baseless assumption. While there is a very considerable Taino component per recent DNA results amoung the general Dominican population, the African component only naturally should be stronger. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

Also, Hillbilly's thread just about says it all.

There are no more pure breed Tainos walking the island, as such the African traits have gained space in the population after the early 1970's...

I can bet you this 100%: There's more incidence of Taino traits than African in the entire population of the DR. The reason African traits are most common now, is simply b/c overpopulation. Haitians just learned that Condoms are to be used when having intercourse unlike before...

If you need prove (historically and factual) just take a stroll in the western side of the island and get back to me on that one...

[PICHARDO]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

Our friend PICHARDO also errs in the population estimates. I do believe current estimates place the Taino population closer to the 300-400,000 mark....

Spaniards only got to see a small fraction of the entire Taino population of Hispaniola. As soon as the Spaniards started their killing sprees the Tainos fled to the nearby islands and met the same end as many left behind there, as the pathogens were already being carried with them...

The estimate of 2 to 3 million is based on the post-evaluation of Taino burial sites found with major incidence all over the island. The Spaniards never ventured much into the vast forests of the island. Look at the DR of today and it's easy to see how much is still wild and tree covered in our side of the island... Now go back to the mid 1500's and just imagine looking at the entire island just he same as those vast places still lush today...

Just like roaches, for every ten you can see there are thousands you don't...
It was the same when the Spaniards met the Incas and Aztecs...

However, one of my points was that the incredible mix of Indian (Taino?Carib?Siboney?)
with Spanish (Spanish + Arab in a good possibility), and Blacks, then adding More Spanish to the mixture, the Haitians (mulattoes and blacks)...must have created a truly amazing DNA....and beautiful people, too.

As for the bones issue, I love to tell my students about the fact that "dispensations" were granted in medieval times to families that wanted to bury a person in more than one place. I have no doubt that this happened with the Admiral, and is reinforced by the fact that there are no bones above the hip in the box in Santo Domingo. I kid them about how we got the butt (culo) and Seville got the head. Some day some researcher will find that paper in a dark and musty file...

One of the issues is that the Columbus presence in that box is Dominican Dogma, and not scientific fact. This could have been established way back in the early 1990s when I was in communication with a professor from the University of California Los Angeles (I think!!) who was a leading expert on DNA analysis of bones...he was going to come here to look at the bones and compare them with the ones in Seville.

However, I was told in no uncertain terms that those were Colombus' bones and not bother with anything else. So no science.

HB