Dominican History and heritage

[POPNYChic]

and mountainannie, its refreshing to hear your POV, honestly. i must admit one of my pet peeves is people trying to tell me i'm black and stop sayin i'm mixed when people look at me and ask "what are you?". it happens alot. but they say blah blah african americans are mixed too, blah blah but see we're good negroes, we just call ourselves black. you just tryina be special by claimin other ****....its like screeching brakes for me.

first off, if i can look in the mirror and at my family and see the asian, lebanese, african, spaniard and arawak influences quite clearly, you cannot tell me who and what i am from your ignorant, uneducated guess. swear to gawd my grandmothers side all look straight up arawak and they are from the deep country where africans where known to have children with arawaks as they all hid away from the spanish.

i'm willing to bet money thats what she is.
and everything else is present in our families culture, much like anyone else.

im just going to say it: dominicans DO have a very different and special experience when it comes to race. sorry if that hurts some folks. its the truth.

we arent the same. similar but def not the same. why is this so unfathomable?

why is it so hard to see that amongst us, we dont have different culture according to our skintones, like you. its all the same for everyone. theres extreme colorism but class rules all. if youre a rich, educated black, youre practically white lol

unlike in the u.s. you wont get rich blacks being pulled over simply for being black. youre just rich.

that is why some think theres "no racism".

its COLORISM.

just as theres colorism amongst african americans and brazilians. white is right. when it comes to features: the more european, the better. second best is indigenous. african is simply UGLY UGLY UGLY unless its about a nice, round booty and hips.

dominicans have been mixing all nillywilly since the late 1400's. no one ever said we couldnt, instead it was encouraged. and now its 2009.

after arab, euros, blacks, asians, natives, etc....how am i accurately going to call myself "black" and thats it.

its so damn complicated, i would rather just say i am DOMINICAN but instead people want the whole run down. i give it to them. you can take it as you will.

[2dlight]

POPNYChic,

After 40+ years of living in the US I've condensed my answer as to where I'm from to this-"I'm from the Dominican Republic" If they want more, I give them a quick geography lesson and move on.

[pkaide1]

Originally Posted by 2dlight

POPNYChic,

After 40+ years of living in the US I've condensed my answer as to where I'm from to this-"I'm from the Dominican Republic" If they want more, I give them a quick geography lesson and move on.

Or just say, are you referencing to the skin color. To me it does not make any sense what is to be black in the US. Are they referencing to the skin color or a live style. Can anybody clarify this one for me please. If someone skin color is black, does it means that they have to take all the African American BS that the racist society in the US thinks it is, even though you never being in Africa do not know zip about Africa, but everything about your Dominican culture. Why dark skin color people should feel proud about their African, European, Asian background. Just let people be whoever they want to be.

[El_Uruguayo]

Originally Posted by pkaide1

Or just say, are you referencing to the skin color. To me it does not make any sense what is to be black in the US. Are they referencing to the skin color or a live style. Can anybody clarify this one for me please. If someone skin color is black, does it means that they have to take all the African American BS that the racist society in the US thinks it is, even though you never being in Africa do not know zip about Africa, but everything about your Dominican culture. Why dark skin color people should feel proud about their African, European, Asian background. Just let people be whoever they want to be.

I agree, people should be proud of who they are, not necessarily their skin colour, or appearance etc (taking some pride in ancestry or nationality is ok, as long as its not extreme). It's important to note, people shouldn't feel ashamed, or be made to fell ashamed of their ancestry or nationality. And mixes are cool - and I totally I agree that having to explain to someone your particular mix in their need to categorize you as X, Y, or Z is rediculous. However some people are just genuinely interested in background.

I for instance have an interesting mix: Irish, Scottish (canadian side), Italian, Spanish(basque & catalonian), possibly Charrua (uruguayan side). Now i just had a child of a dominican mother, add to my mix, more spanish, maybe more italian, some Taina, and some African blood, and who knows what else. What do you get? have one good looking child, 3 possible citizenships, and an incredibly hard time explaining her "ancestry". hehe.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by pkaide1

Or just say, are you referencing to the skin color. To me it does not make any sense what is to be black in the US. Are they referencing to the skin color or a live style. Can anybody clarify this one for me please. If someone skin color is black, does it means that they have to take all the African American BS that the racist society in the US thinks it is, even though you never being in Africa do not know zip about Africa, but everything about your Dominican culture. Why dark skin color people should feel proud about their African, European, Asian background. Just let people be whoever they want to be.

It took a me a while to understand this. The word black in the US seem to have two meanings, one is ethnic and the other racial.

The problem is that the two meanings of the word is used interchangeably (with the only way one can distinguish its two meanings is by the context in which the word is used) to such an extent, that many people seem to not be aware of this distinction. In fact, when most Americans use the word black, they actually use it in its racial context. The problem is that mulattoes are not blacks, hence calling a mulatto black is really an ethnic label, and in fact, that's how many American mulattoes that indentify as black justify their use of that word (ie. they are part black, they are immersed in black American culture - because many American mulattoes reject their white admixture -, thus they are black - that's their rationalization). When it comes to the real blacks, the word black actually means black race and black culture.

Something similar seems to occur with the word African-American, albeit this one is more ethnically rooted; but to me, despite having a good understanding of this, is still a little ridiculous to call a group of people that for the most part have been in the US since the 1700s as anything other than Americans, much less African-American. These are some of the least African people (culturally) on the planet. Plus, true Africans that migrate and become assimilated to the US should be the real African-Americans, but this is another can of worms beyond the scope of this thread.

Now, when Dominicans (and many other people) hear the word black in the US, they ALWAYS accept it by its ethnic definition (ie. Blacks/Mulattoes native to the United States). The basic reason for this is that the concept of race doesn't exist in the Dominican psyche, so its impossible for many Dominicans to accept the word black to mean anything other than ethnicity. And its not just the word black, the word white - by itself - is also understood to mean white American; which is one thing a white Dominican is not.

For that reason, many Dominicans reject being grouped with black/African Americans in the US, despite most Dominicans having similar looks to many African Americans (due to their admixture)

Furthermore, in Spanish the most common words you will hear from Dominicans when referring to African Americans would be los negros de aquí, los negros, los morenos, and los morenos de aquí. In a similar fashion, white Americans are often referred to as los blancos, los blanquitos, los americanos, los gringos, or even los rubios.

Any other group of people will be referred by their nationality, regardless if they are American by births and/or for more than one generation. Plus, Dominicans will always refer to themselves as Dominicans, not as black Dominicans, white Dominicans, indio Dominicans, mulatto Dominicans; but just Dominican. They will also identify other Dominicans as Dominicans as well.

Now, regarding the attitude of many (as in not all, this is DR1 so one must be clear ) African Americans regarding their hatred/distrust of whites, it's one aspect that becomes clear to many Dominicans and other people from other places. This is a recurring theme, from the attempt of mulatto/light skin African Americans to deny their white blood or even their admixture (always pointing to the 'there are light skin blacks in Africa' line) or, when accepting of their white blood admixture, always explaining it as the result of rapes in the plantations. It was never the result of two people falling in love with each other, a quick and mutually agreed rendezvous between two people, or anything of that nature. Its always the rape-scenario, which of course occurred, but I personally highly doubt most American mulattoes exist for that sole reason. I don't think that explains the existence of most American mulattoes.

So in a way, Dominicans (and others) notice in African Americans the complete inverse of what African Americans notice in Dominicans. The only difference is that while Dominicans notice this, they don't really want African Americans to think like Dominicans, in fact Dominicans respect the African American right to deal with their identity as they wish. With African Americans, more often than not, they feel compelled to make Dominicans think like them; and this results in one of two things: A) the Dominican is pressured to such a degree they give up and go with the flow or B)the Dominican is pressured to the point that he/she begins to avoid African Americans, and even begin to develop negative stereotypes of them (the most common complaint: los negros de aquí son ñoños / joden demasiado / tienen demasiado odio / etc. (black Americans are whiners / are a pain in the rear / hate non-blacks, especially whites / etc).

This perceived anymosity from black Americans is also experienced by other people, as is the case with many Puerto Ricans. Even the mulatto Americans that identify as mulatto get this vibe from other African Americans, see here.

People should simply respect each others decision to be whatever they want to be, and move on!

-NALs

[À bientôt]

Originally Posted by NALs

This perceived anymosity from black Americans is also experienced by other people, as is the case with many Puerto Ricans. Even the mulatto Americans that identify as mulatto get this vibe from other African Americans, see here.


-NALs

Wow! I visited mulatto.org and found out they even have meetings and such.

I can see it now:

Guy: "Hey, what's up? Nice hair. Where are you from, girl?"

Girl1: "Just drove up from Jersey. You?"

"Me, I'm a Bronx baby - Fordham Rd. and G. Concourse area."

Girl2: "Hey, guys, nice textures. Long Island girl here, nice to meet you."

Mulatto.org meeting organizer:

"OK, FOLKS, LISTEN UP, PLEASE. We have some new members--nice features and all--and we are going to have them come up to the mic for quick introductions and brief accounts of their mixtures. OK, folks, line up and just keep it down to the bare essentials: mom's and dad's race, and whether you've ever been mistaken for black and/or Dominican."

"Lourdes McNally: Boston girl, PR mom, Irish dad, and I usually encounter resentment from my not-so-lucky sisters. I was in Providence once, and some guy comes up and say, 'Mami, ke lo ke?' Well, I put him in his place: 'Sorry, no habla Spanish.'"

"Jerome Garcia: Brooklyn-born, WHITE SPANISH mother from SPAIN, african-american dad. I tend bar and some customers have told me I look like a lighter version of Taye Diggs, only whiter and not so dark and with much gooder hair. I've signed up for acting lessons. Dig it?"

[Thandie]

Bientot,
Brilliant! Too funny!


Nals,
You made 'a lot' of generalizations about African Americans and Mulatto s in your post. You say you have a 'good understanding' of this issue concerning how AA and Mulatto Americans view their OWN identity? How is that?

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Thandie

Bientot,
Brilliant! Too funny!


Nals,
You made 'a lot' of generalizations about African Americans and Mulatto s in your post. You say you have a 'good understanding' of this issue concerning how AA and Mulatto Americans view their OWN identity? How is that?

Hmmm, from my experience:

If you spend time befriending different types of people, ask them questions about themselves, their cohorts, their culture; they answer. You notice how they react in different types of situations, in different topics.

There are books, reports, studies, so on and so forth to aid in all of this.

With time your level of understanding anything under such scrutiny inevitably increases.

That's how.

-NALs

[dcblue]

Nals, I think you should look up the "one drop rule". It might explain a lot to you about why people of mixed race identify as black in America.

[Big_Poppi2]

I would like to share my personal opinion on the question of the Dominican African mix or heritage or are those who are of that mixture. My skin is dark, my father's skin is very light and I know for as far back as we can trace that no african blood in my fathers line, but my father married a african american in my mom and I look very much like my mom. Growing up, my aunts and my fathers sisters, always cooked traditional Dominican meals, most of my friends where either Dominicano or Puerto Rican, just because of where we lived. When I was almost high school we moved down south and no one in my school was Dominican or latino. Right then was the first time some one told me oh you must be African American and it was a real culture shock for me. I denied of course because I was so proud of my Dominican heritage that it hurt for others to simply lump me into a category because of the color my skin and judge me without knowing anything about who I actually am.
So I had to learn about the African heritage that I have also but I don't find shame in my heritage. Even though I am a very proud Dominican, I am proud to be African American also. I don't look at my skin color as a henderance nor am I jealous of lighter skin color. The Dominican Republic(where we lived also for a few years when I was young) is so much more than people judging others just based on skin color. I don't think I have ever met a Dominican that was ashamed of anything. But maybe this is why some don't really identify with their African ancestry, cause they choose to be proud of DR and just don't hold the African part as highly? As for me I am part of both so I am proud of who I am. Hope that helped some at least. take care and God bless
Biggs