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Thread: Social Conditioning of Dominicans through History?? What Do You Think??

  1. #671
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    Default Outstanding points!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Major448 View Post
    Agreed ... and this is precisely why it's important to know some history ... not just one's own, but other's as well. ..................I have also argued that we cannot use the experience of US history as a way of looking at other places. It's just not always the same thing.

    point is ...

    -- The DR is not a racist country despite some lingering issues (issues which may even be found in other countries, including those with majority black populations.)

    -- There may still be a few individuals that need to be dealt with when it comes to such things. But there is nothing "institutionalized" about it. (Some might even be caused by "outsiders" -- non Dominicans ... who brought their "baggage" with them.)

    -- The interaction between the races in the DR cannot be looked at in the same way as other countries (ie: the US).
    I wouldn't discount the interaction between African Americans and Dominicans though. The Dominican Republic has a storied history of embracing African Americans as evidenced by the link:

    http://www.dr1.com/forums/373797-post1.html


    There is a great big difference between prejudice or preference (religeous, racial, cultural or whatever) in the Dominican Republic and the types of institutionalized exclusion found in the British colonies in the Carribean and the US. The Dominican Republic has always been able to absorb people from other cultures with no adverse effects to their own with the exception of when occasional mass migrations of Haitians put a strain on the countries resources. Even in the midst of the current migration crisis the Dominican people were the first to help the most in the aftermath of the earthquake.

    The people of the Dominican Republic have proven themselves to be accepting and gracious hosts over and over again and that is what makes it a true "melting pot". The French should have sent the Statue of Liberty there, instead. Most Americans still don't understand the inscription.

  2. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainannie View Post
    Greydread....

    I am not sure about your point.

    I lived in Asheville, NC.. where the public schools were finally integrated under FEDERAL court order in 1976!

    My point is that

    The comparism of the racism in the US .. which really was an apartheid system...

    to the subtle sort of classism, colorism , and nationalism that exists here in the DR

    is not valid// imho
    Oh I agree with you 100%. It's just important to note that the institutionalized racism in the US was applied on a State by State basis and some States were more tolerant than others. The 1967 Supreme Court decision rendered the remainder of Jim Crowe law regarding "miscegenation" in 14 (Southern) States unconstitutional and void. The rest of the country had already moved on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Africaida View Post
    May I ask why??
    Cuba, nothing like the DR, played a unique role in the history of the slave trade, was a place where there was "seasoning of the slaves" prior to sending them to the US, and had a more direct link to the US history of slavery. An example would be the story of the ship La Amistad. In some ways, it may be like a return to "Elmina Castle", but in the western hemisphere. In other ways ....

    There are some today who feel that there are still some lingering issues ....

  4. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Africaida View Post
    May I ask why??
    I think this article does a good job of explaining it
    K-faKtor: ON RACE & RACISM IN CUBA [R]*

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    Yes, there are some issues but, from my experience, it is no different than the DR.
    It is just than it is talked about there (just as in Brazil), which is a good thing.

    Actually, I had met an African-American from Harlem in Cuba who was a political refugee in Cuba, she was quite interesting.

  6. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Africaida View Post
    Yes, there are some issues but, from my experience, it is no different than the DR.
    It is just than it is talked about there (just as in Brazil), which is a good thing.

    Actually, I had met an African-American from Harlem in Cuba who was a political refugee in Cuba, she was quite interesting.
    True, but there have not yet been large numbers of Black Americans visiting the island at the same time. I hope you're right. I would like to explore the place more extensively.

  7. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Africaida View Post
    Yes, there are some issues but, from my experience, it is no different than the DR.
    It is just than it is talked about there (just as in Brazil), which is a good thing.

    Actually, I had met an African-American from Harlem in Cuba who was a political refugee in Cuba, she was quite interesting.
    From the article I posted: Cubans explain blacks' low presence in tourist jobs using various arguments, all of which more or less openly imply that Afro-Cubans are unattractive, dirty, prone to criminal activities, inefficient or lack proper manners and education. The most frequent argument revolves around the concept of "pleasant aspect" (buena presencia), a racialized construct that claims that blacks cannot be hired for these jobs due to aesthetic considerations and to the alleged preferences of the tourists.”

    Would you say that's true in the DR, I wouldn't.

  8. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Africaida View Post
    May I ask why??
    Because in racial attitudes, Cuba has been historically the middle point between the US and Latin America. In fact, Jefferson and the other southern democrats were more anxious to annex Cuba to the US than they were the Louisiana territory, because the mentality of the cuban plantocracy was similar to theirs.

    Pedro Andres Perez Cabral, on his book "La Comunidad Mulata", even makes the comparison between the two islands, Cuba and Hispaniola, on the admixture department, and he couldn't help but remark the extreme difference between the two. Cuba had, during colonial times, some institutions called "Juntas de Inmigración blanca", which took upon themselves the task of preventing the planters from surpassing the number of slaves that the colonial government allowed them to purchase, without ensuring themselves first that they would bring the necessary number of european inmigrants to serve as a buffer against possible slave rebellions. That's why Cuba, after Brazil and Mexico, would be the place that would receive the most subtantial european inmigration during colonial times in Latin America. Needless to say, the color line was strictly and ruthlessly enforced in this place. Not even during the time that the british held the place during the seven years war (1756-1763) this discipline would be relaxed.

    That's the reason that explains why, if you cared to ask an old dominican what is his/her stereotypical image of cubans, he/she would tell you that the cuban is either uber-white (blanco-blanco) or uber-black (muy prieto).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob saunders View Post
    From the article I posted: Cubans explain blacks' low presence in tourist jobs using various arguments, all of which more or less openly imply that Afro-Cubans are unattractive, dirty, prone to criminal activities, inefficient or lack proper manners and education. The most frequent argument revolves around the concept of "pleasant aspect" (buena presencia), a racialized construct that claims that blacks cannot be hired for these jobs due to aesthetic considerations and to the alleged preferences of the tourists.”

    Would you say that's true in the DR, I wouldn't.
    oh, I didn't read the article yet. I have seen plenty of morenos y negros working in tourism.
    I was there and didn't feel that it was a racist country. Yes,as everywhere else, the lighter, the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naked_Snake View Post
    That's the reason that explains why, if you cared to ask an old dominican what is his/her stereotypical image of cubans, he/she would tell you that the cuban is either uber-white (blanco-blanco) or uber-black (muy prieto).
    It is indeed stereotypical, I have seen a lot of both (blancos y prietos), but I would say the majority was somehow in the middle (mixed), just like the DR.

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