Haitian workers in the DR, and the condition of Haiti . . . is it getting better?

[Chirimoya]

Originally Posted by Robert

Chiri, I know you have more experience in this area than 99% of the people on the planet, let along this board.

So...

How is that going to happen? How will the DR be involved in that process?
We all know that's the obvious solution, but how do you get to that stage?

The DR has plenty of it's own problems and I think the continuing burden of it's neighbors is just going to bring even more problems to the DR.
Problems that the DR is really not in a position to provide help with, let alone solve.

I'm not in favor of shooting people, but it would not surprise me in the least if the DR decided to close it's borders and take a strong arm stance.

Robert, I'll try to reply without breaching the DR1 DR-related golden rule. Haiti needs everything that the DR does, but in greater quantity and with absolute urgency. Both countries need accountable government that rules in the interest of the people and not just themselves and their elite cronies. Both would benefit from effective international investment as well as long-term development oriented rescue packages. Haiti and the DR also need fairer trading rules that take into account their limitations in the global economy, incentives to produce basic foodstuffs rather than rely on imports, strict environmental enforcement, and much more.

As for the Dominicans, they must take steps to make their army more effective in policing the borders. A 'strong-arm' stance to police your borders and control illegal immigration is not an unreasonable measure if it is done within the limits of international law. The problem is, as I mentioned in my previous post, that the army is corrupt and illegals will continue coming in as long as their passage can be bought.

The Dominican government can continue to raise the Haiti question on the international agenda, as an urgent priority for investment/development aid from the international community.

It is after all the market forces, the promise of employment that attracts the immigrants. If people decided they would employ just Dominicans in the sugar industry, construction, agriculture and domestic work, there would be no incentives for Haitians to come here. But we all know that will never happen. Dominicans just can't have it both ways. If individuals, businesses and the economy are benefitting from the cheap labour, it is pointless to complain about everything that goes with it. Perhaps there should be more rigid enforcement of labour laws, and heavier penalties for employers who employ illegal immigrants.

Ultimately, everyone agrees that it is not the DR's responsibility to take on the crushing burden of a poor country like Haiti. The DR has problems enough of its own.

It is possible to tackle this without descending into hate-filled ranting. The nationalist hysteria displayed by some of our friends here reminds me why I consider myself first and foremost a citizen of the world, who wishes to see all people, everywhere enjoying a decent life.

What after all are national differences? Accidents of birth, no more.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

It is possible to tackle this without descending into hate-filled ranting. The nationalist hysteria displayed by some of our friends here reminds me why I consider myself first and foremost a citizen of the world, who wishes to see all people, everywhere enjoying a decent life.

Thanks Chiri - I read this stuff and get transported back to my country of birth 20 years ago.... It was ugly then, somehow it is uglier now...

[deelt]

Truer words than these haven't been said in this thread re: potential solutions. It all goes back to this issue of Dominicans taking responsibility for their own actions...

We don't even have to look beyond this thread to start assigning penalties for defying labor laws. I used to be a regulatory enforcement officer for the Feds. It would be my pleasure to use my skills to benefit DR, for I can't be bought.

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

It is after all the market forces, the promise of employment that attracts the immigrants. If people decided they would employ just Dominicans in the sugar industry, construction, agriculture and domestic work, there would be no incentives for Haitians to come here. But we all know that will never happen. Dominicans just can't have it both ways. If individuals, businesses and the economy are benefitting from the cheap labour, it is pointless to complain about everything that goes with it. Perhaps there should be more rigid enforcement of labour laws, and heavier penalties for employers who employ illegal immigrants.
...

What after all are national differences? Accidents of birth, no more.

[Gabriela]

I remember after the murder of Martin Luther King, talking to some black students at my university. They told me to stay out of the black community, go back to the white world I belonged in, and clean up my own mess. Judging by the racist comments on this thread, I think we need some education in white racism--in the DR, Robert. I was born in the DR, I have black and not so black cousins. (I am "white"). My grandmother almost disowned my uncle for marrying a black Dominican woman. We ignore racism in the DR, but we have a caste system. The whiter, the better. So any efforts to hunt down and eliminate the Haitians in the DR will also affect the situation of dark skinned Dominicans. So think carefully about any measures you support implementing in the DR. They could also affect your wives, husbands and children. Fight racism, not Haitians.

[Marianopolita]

Gabriela,

I just want to say that your comment is very inspiring and on point. The perception on this board (to some) is if you don't want to kill Haitians then you are not truly Dominican or do not identify with Dominican sentiment. Nothing could be more false. There is an article today in El Listin Diario-la vida section which address "el anti-haitianismo" and if it truly began with "el Trujillismo". Hats off to you for such an intelligent observation and statement which summarizes the bases for past, present and future discriminatory practices in the DR if they continue to be dismissed.

Once again I admire what you wrote. Also, you have proven that it is not the quantity in ones words that count but the quality of what is expressed.

-Lesley D

Originally Posted by Gabriela

I remember after the murder of Martin Luther King, talking to some black students at my university. They told me to stay out of the black community, go back to the white world I belonged in, and clean up my own mess. Judging by the racist comments on this thread, I think we need some education in white racism--in the DR, Robert. I was born in the DR, I have black and not so black cousins. (I am "white"). My grandmother almost disowned my uncle for marrying a black Dominican woman. We ignore racism in the DR, but we have a caste system. The whiter, the better. So any efforts to hunt down and eliminate the Haitians in the DR will also affect the situation of dark skinned Dominicans. So think carefully about any measures you support implementing in the DR. They could also affect your wives, husbands and children. Fight racism, not Haitians.

[Gabriela]

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Gabriela,

I just want to say that your comment is very inspiring and on point. The perception on this board (to some) is if you don't want to kill Haitians then you are not truly Dominican or do not identify with Dominican sentiment. Nothing could be more false. There is an article today in El Listin Diario-la vida section which address "el anti-haitianismo" and if it truly began with "el Trujillismo". Hats off to you for such an intelligent observation and statement which summarizes the bases for past, present and future discriminatory practices in the DR if they continue to be dismissed.

Once again I admire what you wrote. Also, you have proven that it is not the quantity in ones words that count but the quality of what is expressed.

-Lesley D

I also should mention that racism affects the Black Americans and Canadians who visit the DR. So does sexism...but that's another story.

[guarocuya]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

Guarocuya, overall the article was good.

The author has this rigid mentality of DR being black or something, but that is out of ignorance more than anything else.

I presented the article to show people a more professional manner of presenting the ever increasing Haitian problem and of bringing light that the DR is not the only place with this problem.

I have heard many Haitians say that they hate Dominicans because we basically protect what is ours. Well, they should also hate Bahamians, Cubans, Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guadalupeans, and Martiniquians. In fact, they should hate themselves if they want to hate the people that are causing them the most harm.

BTW, Guarocuya, thank you for those link. Just a quick question. Where is it? I don't see nothing.

hi, Nals, I was trying to post some people with strong native strong blood that my friend gorge estevezhttp://www.centrelink.org/TestimonyC.html, http://www.angelfire.com/ct/taino/jorgesend me by e-mail but I dont know how to post here. do you know how to do it. thank you.

[guarocuya]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

Guarocuya, overall the article was good.

The author has this rigid mentality of DR being black or something, but that is out of ignorance more than anything else.

I presented the article to show people a more professional manner of presenting the ever increasing Haitian problem and of bringing light that the DR is not the only place with this problem.

I have heard many Haitians say that they hate Dominicans because we basically protect what is ours. Well, they should also hate Bahamians, Cubans, Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guadalupeans, and Martiniquians. In fact, they should hate themselves if they want to hate the people that are causing them the most harm.

BTW, Guarocuya, thank you for those link. Just a quick question. Where is it? I don't see nothing.

hi, Nals, I was trying to post some people with strong native strong blood that my friend gorge estevez http://www.centrelink.org/TestimonyC.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ct/taino/jorge send me by e-mail but I dont know how to post here. do you know how to do it. thank you.

[DRsScarface]

Hey Leslie D, can you post the link to that Listín Diario article.

[Marianopolita]

DRsScarface,

Unfortunately, I can not post the link because yesterday's paper is not available yet in the ediciones anteriores section. I just checked. However, I always keep a copy of good articles from el Listin D in a file for myself which I did. I could email it to you if you like. Please let me know.

-Lesley D

Originally Posted by DRsScarface

Hey Leslie D, can you post the link to that Listín Diario article.