Denying Haitian contributions to Dominican society

Rapadou · #1 01-08-2005, 02:29 PM

Pena Gomez, ULysses Heureaux, well like it or not that self hated man Trujillo had Haitian roots, and yes Sammy Sosa too, just to name a few.

On my last visit to the DR, I noticed that Haitians are almost given 0 if any credit in Dominican society, why is that. I stayed on a resort in which many if not a 99.9% of the paintings being sold as native paintings were work of arts of people with Haitians ancestry yet they're hardly given any credit.

Pena Gomez was ridiculed because of his Haitian link, but just not Trujillo because like Hitler he managed to convince many he had no trace of Haitian blood in his veins. ANd Sammy well he's totally ignored his Haitian background. What kind of a society is that to deny such obvious facts about those who've contributed so much to it. ALmost to the brink of self hatred, how much longer can you hide it.

bob saunders · #2 01-08-2005, 11:15 PM

And what did pedro gomez contribute to dominican society.

Rapadou · #3 01-08-2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob saunders

And what did pedro gomez contribute to dominican society.

You did asked what is it that Pena Gomez contributed to Dominican society, either you're joking or you're just being a you know what. Hmm he only ran for the Presidency of the DR that's all he did nothing else. Here's an article I was able to gather that basically has some noteworthy mentions of Pena's influence in Dominican society, enjoy compadre..

Documents menu
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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 14:42:10 CDT
From: "Workers World"
Organization: WW Publishers
Subject: Pena Gomez, a voice for the oppressed
Article: 36244
Message-ID:
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Pena Gomez, A Voice for the Oppressed
By Key Martin

On May 10, Dr. Jose Francisco Pena Gomez, a leading figure in the struggle for justice and liberation in the Dominican Republic, died at age 61 after a long battle with cancer.

Pena Gomez will always be remembered as the voice that inspired tens of thousands of Dominican youths to take to the streets on April 24, 1965, to confront the repressive military junta that had seized power two years earlier. Later in his life, Pena Gomez's lunch-time "Tribuna Democr tica" radio broadcasts would bring the country to a halt as the people tuned in.

Pena Gomez, a Black Dominican of Haitian descent, should have been president of the Dominican Republic. But in 1994 the old, U.S.-backed regime of Joaquin Balaguer stole the election, bringing the country to the brink of a major confrontation.

The theft was so blatant that Balaguer was forced to shorten his term and agree to a new election in 1996. That year, the centrist Lionel Fernandez edged Pena Gomez out after receiving the support of the country's right wing.

These racist and conservative elements in the ruling class and military kept Pe¤a G¢mez out of the presidency not so much because they feared his politics, which had become more moderate over the years. Rather they feared him because he remained a symbol of the 1965 revolution and of political empowerment for Black Dominicans, including those of Haitian descent.

Pena Gomez had been adopted by Dominican parents as an infant during the 1937 massacres of Haitian residents by the brutal Trujillo dictatorship, in which over 10,000 Haitians were killed. His parents either perished or fled.

In 1961, the three-decade-long dictatorship of Rafael Trujillo ended. Professor Juan Bosch, a progressive, was elected president. But his term was short-lived as the military took over again.

Pena Gomez's 1965 radio broadcast sparked an uprising that toppled the military junta. The people took over the streets, emptied the armories and took the power.

Four days later, U.S. Marines invaded Santo Domingo, the capital.

The administration of President Lyndon Johnson and the U.S. ruling class deeply feared another Cuba in Latin America and the Caribbean. Sending troops to the Dominican Republic was for them a daring political act--coming just as Washington was rapidly escalating its intervention in Vietnam. In fact, the U.S. invasion actually delayed the Vietnam buildup for months as the Pentagon diverted tens of thousands of troops there.

It was the second time in the 20th century that the U.S. military occupied the Dominican Republic.

The struggle in the Dominican Republic was part of the inspiration for Che Guevara's famous anti-imperialist call for "two, three, many Vietnams."

Slowly, U.S. troops took control of the capital and began arresting the youths. In August, the U.S. government sent CIA operative Dan Mitrione to Santo Domingo. He started the death squads that emptied the prisons and depleted the revolutionary movement through mass murder.

Mitrione became the subject of a fictional movie, "State of Siege," directed by Costa-Gavras and starring Yves Montand. The film chronicled Mitrione's similar role later in Brazil and Uruguay.

Pena Gomez was forced into exile. After some years, he returned to the country as a leader of the Dominican Revolutionary Party. The party's fairly moderate 1978 presidential candidate, Antonio Guzman, won on a promise to allow the exiles to return home.

This year on May 16, a mass outpouring of Dominicans swept the Dominican Revolutionary Party into victory in municipal and parliamentary elections. As one Dominican said, "Even in death Pe¤a showed again that he was the winner."

The election won't solve the problems of poverty, however, as the country still suffers from the policies of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank and rampant exploitation of workers in the Free Trade Zones and throughout the country.

Rapadou · #4 01-09-2005, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el gringo 762

anyone that has been to haiti or seen a haitian could understand why few dominicans would like to be associated.

(not withstanding the fact that those, low rents, occupied dr for an extended period of time.)

is it racist to like an individual based on their color? i think not. i like milk in my coffee, that is a preference it does not make me racist. because, if the coffee is hot and tastes good, no milk is available, i will drink it with out complaint.

when the coffeee is associated with crime in my community, disease and corruption i throw it out...

Wow, you talk about the DR as if you were a first world country. Quite on the contrary you suffer from most of the same ills people on the other side of the isle suffer from. BOth suffer from hunger, case in point both take to the seas for the US or Puerto Rico in the case of those on the side of the DR.

Would it be fair of me to say that all Dominicans are Prostitues since 99.9% of Dominicans in Haiti prostitutes themselves. No, I am not as shallow as you are my friend, and would never scoop to such level. The DR a country mostly owned by foreign investors, see all of these resorts if one day they decide to up and move, you might really see the light. Until then keep on dreaming, thinking you're that much better than the other side. As bad as Haiti has been, with political instability the DR is not that far ahead, look deep down and you'll see what I am talking about, unless you're in denial.

ERICKXSON · #5 01-09-2005, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapadou

Wow, you talk about the DR as if you were a first world country. Quite on the contrary you suffer from most of the same ills people on the other side of the isle suffer from. BOth suffer from hunger, case in point both take to the seas for the US or Puerto Rico in the case of those on the side of the DR.

Would it be fair of me to say that all Dominicans are Prostitues since 99.9% of Dominicans in Haiti prostitutes themselves. No, I am not as shallow as you are my friend, and would never scoop to such level. The DR a country mostly owned by foreign investors, see all of these resorts if one day they decide to up and move, you might really see the light. Until then keep on dreaming, thinking you're that much better than the other side. As bad as Haiti has been, with political instability the DR is not that far ahead, look deep down and you'll see what I am talking about, unless you're in denial.

RAPADOU GO TO HELL WITH YOUR DOMINICAN HAITIAN CONFRONTATION IF WE DOMINICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAM IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HATED HAITIANS SO DARN MUCH I WOULD RUN OVER 100 a day since they are a plague that has taken over every freaking corner of Santo Domingo Upper side begging and begging, WE DOMINICANS! supply a large portion of HAITIANS MEDICAL in oru HOSPITALS, WE DOMINICANS SUPPORT A LARRRRRRRRRGE HAITIAN POPULATION........................................ .......

IF WE DOMINICANS WERE SO BAD I WOULD OF KILL THE GUYS THAT WASH MY CARS THE GUYS THAT BUILD BUILDINGS HERE AND FRIENDS IF YOU DONT KNOW SHUT THE HELL UP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Personally i have problems with some Haitians but we're all people and need to be treated on a one to one basis don't be and IDIOT and kill the noise...

ASK SAMMY IF HE IS HAITIAN? i make sure u see me at the hospital i'll bring some flowers.

99.9% of prostitutes where? you are the biggest ignorant in the whole wide world to think a country will have such a large population of your likeness.

Rapadou · #6 01-09-2005, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERICKXSON

RAPADOU GO TO HELL WITH YOUR DOMINICAN HAITIAN CONFRONTATION IF WE DOMINICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAM IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HATED HAITIANS SO DARN MUCH I WOULD RUN OVER 100 a day since they are a plague that has taken over every freaking corner of Santo Domingo Upper side begging and begging, WE DOMINICANS! supply a large portion of HAITIANS MEDICAL in oru HOSPITALS, WE DOMINICANS SUPPORT A LARRRRRRRRRGE HAITIAN POPULATION........................................ .......

IF WE DOMINICANS WERE SO BAD I WOULD OF KILL THE GUYS THAT WASH MY CARS THE GUYS THAT BUILD BUILDINGS HERE AND FRIENDS IF YOU DONT KNOW SHUT THE HELL UP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Personally i have problems with some Haitians but we're all people and need to be treated on a one to one basis don't be and IDIOT and kill the noise...

ASK SAMMY IF HE IS HAITIAN? i make sure u see me at the hospital i'll bring some flowers.

99.9% of prostitutes where? you are the biggest ignorant in the whole wide world to think a country will have such a large population of your likeness.

Please spare me your pity, I will not take the bait and besides I didn't understand half of what you wrote there. My thread was not about how you treat Haitians and how much good hearted people you are, but rather about hiding and not giving credit where its due that's all. BUt since you only see Haitians in one light, you just cannot go past that can you? And I didn't ask you about Haitians who wash your cars in the DR, the fact that I have an Russian Guy who washes my car here in the US (a first class country) what the hell does that mean, huh?

In what I was able to understand in your statements there, I can clearly see how much of racist you're not. The nile is not just a river in Egypt!

Chirimoya · #7 01-09-2005, 06:51 AM

Ah, m'zami, sak pase? Rapadou, mon cher, don't you know that these topics are guaranteed to bring out the uglier side in many posters here?

I don't think it's as simple as you're saying, though. There is a complex ambivalence about Haiti in the DR. People can sometimes be blind or oblivious to the positive elements of Haitian culture, while magnifying the negative aspects. Often enough - as you point out - these negative aspects are shared by the DR itself.

When it comes to the Haitian influence on the DR, there can be denial, appropriation, or acceptance, depending on the case in point and the attitude of the Dominican in question.

Some examples:

Denial:
Dominican traditional Gaga music is not accepted to be Dominican, but dismissed as Haitian, because it is preferable to consider it the result of Haitian 'infiltration' into Dominican culture rather than to accept that Dominicans and Haitians have a common African heritage. Same goes for Santeria. It is believed to be an alien belief system brought over from Haiti, instead of a feature of Dominican African heritage in its own right.

When a Dominican has a Haitian surname in their family tree, some will claim a French grandparent rather than a Haitian one. In contrast, some will attribute their skin colour to a lone 'Haitian' ancestor, rather than accept that most Dominicans are descendants of Europeans and Africans in their own right.

Appropriation:
French Romantic painter Theodore Chasseriau was born in the DR of French/Haitian parents in early 19th century. The family moved to France where he achieved prominence as a major artist of his time, contemporary of the better-known Ingres and David. His paintings hang in the Louvre. The Dominican art scene has been keen to reclaim him as a Dominican, because he was born here, despite his parentage and the fact that he hardly lived here except as a child. Some even claim that his mother was Dominican, not French or Haitian, but I've never found proof of this.

Acceptance:
The loudest voices come from Haiti-phobes, as is evidenced on these boards. I choose the term deliberately because their attitude to Haiti is formed by fear, ignorance and hatred. However, there is a sizeable portion of Dominicans which is compassionate about the tragic plight of Haiti and accepting of the richness of its culture, which disassociates itself from the shrill rantings of their prejudiced compatriots.

Also, Haitian art is sold in the DR as just that: Haitian art. I've never heard any Dominicans try to appropriate it as Dominican art.

Peña Gomez is only associated with Haiti when people try to discredit him. His supporters would always claim he was '100% Dominican' but this is as much political as racial. If it could be proved he was born outside the DR he would not have been eligible to stand for President.

Sammy Sosa, being from the east, is fairly likely to be the descendant of cocolos (from the English-speaking Caribbean) rather than Haitian, though I don't know for a fact either way, so he is not a good example.

Chris · #8 01-09-2005, 07:08 AM

Thanks for the voice of reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Also, Haitian art is sold in the DR as just that: Haitian art. I've never heard any Dominicans try to appropriate it as Dominican art.

No, no overt 'appropriation', except in that Dominicans buy it and sell it in the tourist markets. I've often walked through Cabarete or Sosua and wondered why there are no examples of Dominican art, or very little Dominican art on display.... "Haitian art" has become the trade name synonymous with the naive style... and the roots of the art remain forgotten - at least where I see it sold.

The hatred astounds me, it is like we're living in the gaza strip.

Pib · #9 01-09-2005, 07:39 AM

Chris, this is hardly the Gaza strip. Sorry to dissapoint you.

When you start with an OP which is merely a thinly disguised bait you can hardly have a meaningful discussion, which leaves the fringe elements as the only ones who enthusiastically reply to it. Me? We've gone through this path too many times, I have nothing new to add except that Rapadou is made of the same cloth as the anti-Haitian fringe. Maybe one day they will take it up a notch and anhilate (hopefully not literally) each other, and leave us the mayority of Dominicans and Haitians to live our lives in peace.

And Erickson, take it down a notch, don't make me close this thread as I am really tempted to do it anyways.

Rapadou · #10 01-09-2005, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Thanks for the voice of reason.

No, no overt 'appropriation', except in that Dominicans buy it and sell it in the tourist markets. I've often walked through Cabarete or Sosua and wondered why there are no examples of Dominican art, or very little Dominican art on display.... "Haitian art" has become the trade name synonymous with the naive style... and the roots of the art remain forgotten - at least where I see it sold.

The hatred astounds me, it is like we're living in the gaza strip.

Thanks, Chirimoya for the run-down, note however that I never claimed that Dominicans claimed the art as theirs. I just stated that I was shocked to find that most of the works being sold were that of people of Haitian ancestry. Haitian art indeed looked like the native art as Chris simply put it. I couldn't find a work done by a Dominican artist, it was amazing to have witnessed that.

And as for Sammy, I have my sources who claimed that he's in deep denial when it comes to his Haitian ancestry because of some bad blood with that side of the family. I can tell you that my Dominican side of the Family no longer accept us as Dominicans, also because of some idiotic issues. WHile I was in the DR I wanted to visit my Grandmother's side of the family but thought well about it and decided not to. Besides I don't know if they would have lynched me, you know you never if they'd told their neighbors about their Haitian side of la familia.

My Mother once bumped into one of our Dominican cousins in the Heights, wouldn't you know it the woman totally ignored my mother. Eventhough they grew up as siblings when the Dominican side would visit us in Haiti for Family reunions, I tell it's deep it's really deep.

by the way PIb, I am not here to bash DR culture I just want some answers. I am a product of both cultures, yet one basically wants nothing to do with me. I would love to one day meet my Dominican cousins, however if they don't want to that'll just be a part of me that I would have to do without. I will never deny the person/product that I am, not me, never.