Santo Domingo Metro - Page 6

MerengueDutchie · #51 02-10-2005, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhm

Whats US330 million dollars? Its chump change compared to what the Meya administration squandered. My concern is the time factor...will the project go into another administration? We know what happens from admistration to administration. Is the cost 330 million or three times that? I'm not impressed with a presentation made on a Texaco Map with a few lines drawn. Is the ridership there and is the 5-10 peso price realistic?

What are the alternatives to a Metro? A ring road or beltway to the North of Santo Domingo could make The Kennedy and 27th of Feb. gost roads. A comprensive mass transit study must be implemented, not by a bunch of politicians with a gas station map but off island professional.

I politely disagree..

1) The estimate is wrong as I have proven prior. The estimated 330 mio US imo is more likely to be in excess of 1000 mio US ( a factor 3 or more).. if you start planning and builing now. The more the project is postponed the more the costs will go up.

2) Whether it is 330 mio US or 1000 mio US, it is too much for a country that is on a standby facility of 700 mio US from the IMF, needs to restructure its 2006 and 2013 maturities and needs to borrow money to pay the interest on previous loans.

3) I do firmly agree that until a study has been carried out by a respectable firm of surveyors from outside companies that have experience in these projects and in working in 3rd world countries, no real assesment on the transport situation can be made..

4) I also would say, looking at solutions in other poor countries that a likely solution would involve structured bus schedules and a road-network in reasonable repair..

Snuffy · #52 02-10-2005, 08:38 AM

This smacks of corruption...the worst kind that takes the peoples money and funnels it into a project that doles out lucrative contracts to the wealthy, both at home and abroad. It is a legitimate way to take their money and move it to a location where it can be stolen. It is called legalized money laundering.

How can anyone justify a Metro in a country where the majority of the people live in gutter poverty. Would you not invest that money in healthcare, food programs, education, clean air - water, electricity?

Try the following to end your transport woes....clean up and repair your streets, implement automobile pollution laws, try traffic control - traffic signals that work, buses are a lot cheaper.

Supporting this is either ignorant or you have something to gain from it.

thepiper · #53 02-10-2005, 09:01 AM

In the first "decreto" of this adminstration, Diandino Peña was named Director general del metro de Santo Domingo.I knew then we would have a metro. The fact is we all now that US$320,000,000.00 is a low estimate, very low, and this is for the first stage. If this stage stays in budget, 100,000 riders a day, for 30 years, at the Diandino stated price of 10 pesos fair and at an exchange rate of 30/1 this will be a financially viable project. This is if you have a subsidies from the goverment of about RD$50,000,000.00 a month.

A 30 mega powerplant will produce energy at about US$0.10 per kwh. This is about double of any power supplied to a train system in any city. So our operating cost will be higher than anyplace else.

That said I have a couple of questions. How many riders will we be able to accomadate at the estimated price of construction ?
What will be the frecuency this trains will pass the different stops ?

I agree this might not be a good thing for Dominicans but I am sure it will be constructed. The amount of money involved is to big for any dominican politician to pass up. And there is enough to go around for all "partidos" concerned.

stallion · #54 02-10-2005, 09:05 AM

I think santo domingo should practice with railroad tracks(trains) first before getting a metro. Metro's are very hard to keep up with. They think they in NYC or something.

TEHAMA · #55 02-10-2005, 11:47 AM

My Dominican friends who are... lets just say less informed/economically priviledged are completely excited about this project. Like someone else said on here, I think they believe it would be more like NYC or something!!

Public support for this obvious boondoggle is frighting. But have the Political powers ever really listen to public during non-election time? I guess if NYC can do it so can Santo Domingo?!
TEHAMA

PS- As for the opening of a billard/pool hall in the historical home of one of the country's founding Father's birthplace, I find it even MORE disrespectful to express your opinnion of the situation by writing on front of the building. With all the graffiti, it now looks more like the home of a gang leader.

Dolores · #56 02-11-2005, 06:02 PM

How can people compare NY and Santo Domingo when talking about a metro?

In NY it gets freezing cold and snows. The metro is essential because it becomes the only way people can get around safely. Are we hiding from torrential rains here, a hurricane? Here the contrary happens. We spend eight months of the year in hot, hot weather. What if the air conditioning fails. Have you been in the airport of Santo Domingo when the air conditioning doesn't work. Imagine being conked down under when the air conditioning isn't working?

The metro is great solution for country's where it gets cold, but can't imagine the maintenance costs for keeping the air conditioning going on that 10 km monster that is being proposed.

I am having a hard time thinking overwise than that the metro proposal is but the hyped up mega works for the Pan Am Games that today have become white elephants costing 15 times their original cost.

Why send people underground when this is such a beautiful city, this is the Caribbean? I lived in NYC for about a year doing my masters in journalism at Columbia University and used the subway day in and out. It was efficient, but taking a bus was being alive and in contact with the world.

No one can tell me that there are not other proposals that would work better for us. We need great public transport, but let's be realistic. Some cities have had technicians working out the problems for three or four years before starting, and here we want to start digging in three months. Give me a break. If the studies are not done we will end up with another Higuero (La Isabela, Joaquin Balaguer airport). Or should I mention the Fluor Daniels gold refinery in Cotui that cost millions of dollars and was never used. Where were the studies for that investment? The Metro seems like will be added to that collection of public works.

Happened to be in Barcelona last week at the Alimara Hotel (owned by the University of Barcelona) that lodged the people who lived in the barrio where the subway line under construction collapsed because of the method of construction used to save money. Do you think we are going to use the most expensive method of construction to avoid this happening here? Here where it seems four months of studies are enough to get started?

Does not make me feel good.

Mr_DR · #57 02-12-2005, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper

In the first "decreto" of this adminstration, Diandino Peña was named Director general del metro de Santo Domingo.I knew then we would have a metro. The fact is we all now that US$320,000,000.00 is a low estimate, very low, and this is for the first stage. If this stage stays in budget, 100,000 riders a day, for 30 years, at the Diandino stated price of 10 pesos fair and at an exchange rate of 30/1 this will be a financially viable project. This is if you have a subsidies from the goverment of about RD$50,000,000.00 a month.

A 30 mega powerplant will produce energy at about US$0.10 per kwh. This is about double of any power supplied to a train system in any city. So our operating cost will be higher than anyplace else.

That said I have a couple of questions. How many riders will we be able to accomadate at the estimated price of construction ?
What will be the frecuency this trains will pass the different stops ?

I agree this might not be a good thing for Dominicans but I am sure it will be constructed. The amount of money involved is to big for any dominican politician to pass up. And there is enough to go around for all "partidos" concerned.

They can't even keep the cable car to Mt Isabela running and they think that they will be able to keep up with a subway system? I think not.

Chirimoya · #58 02-12-2005, 07:35 AM

Some hot cities have metros too: Caracas, which unlike Santo Domingo happens to be in a country without a power problem, and the Brazilian cities already mentioned. I can only guess what it's like in the NY subway in the summertime, never having visited at that time of year, but if it's anything like the London underground during a heatwave...

Seeing as we're comparing SD with cities who have got it right, consider all the cases where they haven't had to go underground.

One of the world's most affluent cities - Geneva - has an effective tram and trolleybus system. To set something similar up here in SD would not involve the same infrastructural upheaval as a metro, not to mention the cost. The Geneva transport system is integrated, so that tickets for the trams are valid on trolleybuses and normal buses, as well as the little lake ferries, the 'mouettes'. Come to think of it we could even have our own 'mouettes' going along the Ozama, but we'd have to call them 'garzas' or something.

Dolores · #59 02-12-2005, 07:46 AM

Did you know that the Puerto Rico metro so far has cost US$2 billion, that is about US$200 million per km not the US$33 million being promoted by the metro minister. The Ambassador of Canada, Adam Blackwell went on record saying that the international standards for building a metro are US$120-US$150 million. That is the price tag on the Dominican metro is more likely to be US$1.5 billion, rather than the US$327 million. He also mentioned that studies for a metro take at least three years if to be done well.

Dolores · #60 02-12-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Seeing as we're comparing SD with cities who have got it right, consider all the cases where they haven't had to go underground.

One of the world's most affluent cities - Geneva - has an effective tram and trolleybus system. To set something similar up here in SD would not involve the same infrastructural upheaval as a metro, not to mention the cost. The Geneva transport system is integrated, so that tickets for the trams are valid on trolleybuses and normal buses, as well as the little lake ferries, the 'mouettes'. Come to think of it we could even have our own 'mouettes' going along the Ozama, but we'd have to call them 'garzas' or something.

That's a good point to be making. There are alternatives. Several years ago was told a German company made a proposal to use the Isabela-Ozama River as a main transport way to move north south and fast. Maybe something we should be looking into?

We definitely should be looking at cities that have solved their problems without having to go underground.