Azucar Amarga on Primer Impacto

[Marianopolita]

Stewart, Stodgord et al.

Getting back to the OP's topic of discussion.....

I tuned into Part III of the series and that’s all I need to understand that what is taking place is modern day slavery as I stated in my post #17. Needless to say it was very disturbing to watch but really annoying to witness the outright denial by the Dominican government. The Haitians (of all ages) are brought under the notion that they would be working in hotels but not knowing they would be subjected to torture. Some children are raped, beaten, left to die all for sake of a few pesos.

Stewart you asked how could this be stopped? Well, first I think that the problem has to be recognized and brought to the forefront by someone in power and not by the priest who was brave enough to investigate and report this modern suffering. Until that happens regrettably I see no end to it. Once again I ask what is the purpose of these so-called world organizations? Is this not part of their role to eradicate human suffering and punish those who perpetrate it? How selective is the process? How many more people have to suffer before it’s addressed or will they pretend too that it does not exist? My better judgment tells me though that the region and the country itself probably have a lot to do with the lack of attention by world organizations and world leaders. No end in sight.


-Lesley D-

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Stewart, Stodgord et al.

Getting back to the OP's topic of discussion.....

I tuned into Part III of the series and that’s all I need to understand that what is taking place is modern day slavery as I stated in my post #17. Needless to say it was very disturbing to watch but really annoying to witness the outright denial by the Dominican government. The Haitians (of all ages) are brought under the notion that they would be working in hotels but not knowing they would be subjected to torture. Some children are raped, beaten, left to die all for sake of a few pesos.

Stewart you asked how could this be stopped? Well, first I think that the problem has to be recognized and brought to the forefront by someone in power and not by the priest who was brave enough to investigate and report this modern suffering. Until that happens regrettably I see no end to it. Once again I ask what is the purpose of these so-called world organizations? Is this not part of their role to eradicate human suffering and punish those who perpetrate it? How selective is the process? How many more people have to suffer before it’s addressed or will they pretend too that it does not exist? My better judgment tells me though that the region and the country itself probably have a lot to do with the lack of attention by world organizations and world leaders. No end in sight.


-Lesley D-

I thought slavery was work with no pay?

I hate it when people fail to give the fault where the fault lies. This is a result of market capitalism, period.

The cheaper the better, after all, Wal Mart did not made it big by paying its employees decent wages and buying its merchandise at the market price.

Capitalism, nothing more nothing less.

BTW, if you ever take a drive through the remote rural areas of Southwestern Florida, you will see fields in cultivation with Mexicans and Central Americans working the land there. It's interesting to note, that they were the so-called "slaves" too. Afterall, if any of them left the farm, deportation was just around the corner. Look in your own back yard, before you complaint about somebody else's.

Did I mentioned that many of them were lured with promises of riches? But, I guess you knew that already.

Here, take a look for yourself...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...25/84715.shtml

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...9/ai_597197279

http://www.freetheslaves.net/resourc...den_Slaves.pdf

[Marianopolita]

Slavery has many definitions and two that fit the scenario in the documentary include : 1. One who is forced to work for a master to whom he belongs. 2. One who has lost power to resist. (Chambers paperback dictionary). There are many more definitions but I want emphasize these two as per the documentary.

Now once again to justify your argument you always compare the DR to the US, which I feel, and I have said this numerous times to you, it makes no sense. This is a scenario that's happening in the DR and the documentary focused on the DR and not Southwestern Florida. Therefore, it's completely irrelevant to me.

Can you offer any solutions to the problem instead of using the US as an invalid comparison to justify a practice that is unacceptable in this day and age? If we were discussing a problem that were happening in the US I would say your argument is justified. If you don’t have any suggestions then I will end the discussion with you here because that's what I would like to hear are suggested solutions to the problem in the DR and not comparisons.


-Lesley D-

[stewart]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

I thought slavery was work with no pay?

I hate it when people fail to give the fault where the fault lies. This is a result of market capitalism, period.

The cheaper the better, after all, Wal Mart did not made it big by paying its employees decent wages and buying its merchandise at the market price.

Capitalism, nothing more nothing less.

BTW, if you ever take a drive through the remote rural areas of Southwestern Florida, you will see fields in cultivation with Mexicans and Central Americans working the land there. It's interesting to note, that they were the so-called "slaves" too. Afterall, if any of them left the farm, deportation was just around the corner. Look in your own back yard, before you complaint about somebody else's.

Did I mentioned that many of them were lured with promises of riches? But, I guess you knew that already.

Here, take a look for yourself...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...25/84715.shtml

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...9/ai_597197279

http://www.freetheslaves.net/resourc...den_Slaves.pdf

I know you're not suggesting that the problem be ignored because it happens in the US too.
It does happen here. But I think there are lots more regulations in place. THe workers do still have some legal recourse. And there is much less hunger and suffering here in the states. I live inUtah. The west hires lots of immigant workers to harvest potatos, apples etc. I see them all the time. It isn't an easy life. But they do eat every day. And drink heavily on the weekends. SO the quality of life cannot be compared to that of the Haitian workers.
THe priest that has done the work there, referred to it as modern day feudalism. That is the best way to describe it.
It is over simplifying the issue to say it is the fault of capitalism. The market does drive prices, wages etc. But there could be more government control. The problem is the government is choosing to look the other way. I am sure that they are being well compensated for their inaction.

[deelt]

Nals
First and foremost with Lesley D you need to check your country first.

Second you need to check your issue. What YOU are discussing and citing is a worldwide organized PROSTITION RING. A thriving $3 billion+ business.

What the OP is presenting is a the issue of MIGRANT FARM WORKERS.
Two VERY different issues. Mexicans are intimately familiar with this status.

Thirdly, in the US, since I am looking at my backyard, the migrant farm workers are granted PROTECTION status at many levels and are handsomely paid compare to DR.

As a person that has not just driven by these workers but whose job it was to STOP and ENGAGE them as a government agent to make sure their RIGHTS were PROTECTED, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I know my heart and intentions were in the right place. And don't doubt it violators were PROSECUTED under my watch. I also INTIMATELY worked with Dept of Labor who was also there to do the same.

I've also travelled to their camps which in no shape, way or form do they compare to the standards of bateyes.

Rather than pointing fingers outside, the DR and ruling families should check their conscious.

Deelt

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

BTW, if you ever take a drive through the remote rural areas of Southwestern Florida, you will see fields in cultivation with Mexicans and Central Americans working the land there. It's interesting to note, that they were the so-called "slaves" too. Afterall, if any of them left the farm, deportation was just around the corner. Look in your own back yard, before you complaint about somebody else's.

Did I mentioned that many of them were lured with promises of riches? But, I guess you knew that already.

Here, take a look for yourself...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...25/84715.shtml

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...9/ai_597197279

http://www.freetheslaves.net/resourc...den_Slaves.pdf

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Slavery has many definitions and two that fit the scenario in the documentary include : 1. One who is forced to work for a master to whom he belongs. 2. One who has lost power to resist. (Chambers paperback dictionary). There are many more definitions but I want emphasize these two as per the documentary.

Now once again to justify your argument you always compare the DR to the US, which I feel, and I have said this numerous times to you, it makes no sense. This is a scenario that's happening in the DR and the documentary focused on the DR and not Southwestern Florida. Therefore, it's completely irrelevant to me.

Can you offer any solutions to the problem instead of using the US as an invalid comparison to justify a practice that is unacceptable in this day and age? If we were discussing a problem that were happening in the US I would say your argument is justified. If you don’t have any suggestions then I will end the discussion with you here because that's would what I would like to hear are suggested solutions to the problem in the DR and not comparisons.


-Lesley D-

Is it irrelevant because it shows the existence of slavery in the US or simply because I always compare ourselves to one of the most efficient countries on earth?

When you try to reach your goals, do you compare your progress on those who are below you or those who are above you? The samething applies to countries.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by stewart

I know you're not suggesting that the problem be ignored because it happens in the US too.
It does happen here. But I think there are lots more regulations in place. THe workers do still have some legal recourse. And there is much less hunger and suffering here in the states. I live inUtah. The west hires lots of immigant workers to harvest potatos, apples etc. I see them all the time. It isn't an easy life. But they do eat every day. And drink heavily on the weekends. SO the quality of life cannot be compared to that of the Haitian workers.
THe priest that has done the work there, referred to it as modern day feudalism. That is the best way to describe it.
It is over simplifying the issue to say it is the fault of capitalism. The market does drive prices, wages etc. But there could be more government control. The problem is the government is choosing to look the other way. I am sure that they are being well compensated for their inaction.

I'm not suggesting ignorance of the problem, just making sure people are not ignorant that it happens in their own backyards.

It's easy to think of Dominicans as evil in these situations, but when your own compatriots are found in the same circumstances, then people in general begin to think in the "well, not everybody is like that" mode. That is all I'm doing, trying to prevent people from painting all Dominicans with the same brush.

[Marianopolita]

Nals,

Those are your ideals.

Where are the suggestions for this problem in the DR? The government has openly denied it. Suggestions are what I am looking for. I know I don't have any immediate ones but I would like to hear yours since you usually have something to say...this is your chance once again to show us all the light.


-Lesley D-

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

Is it irrelevant because it shows the existence of slavery in the US or simply because I always compare ourselves to one of the most efficient countries on earth?

When you try to reach your goals, do you compare your progress on those who are below you or those who are above you? The samething applies to countries.

[NALs]

Nals
First and foremost with Lesley D you need to check your country first.

Second you need to check your issue. What YOU are discussing and citing is a worldwide organized PROSTITION RING. A thriving $3 billion+ business.

What the OP is presenting is a the issue of MIGRANT FARM WORKERS.
Two VERY different issues. Mexicans are intimately familiar with this status.

And Haitians are not involved in farms and/or prostitution in the DR against their will?

Please, explain the so called "different" issues.

Thirdly, in the US, since I am looking at my backyard, the migrant farm workers are granted PROTECTION status at many levels and are handsomely paid compare to DR.

Sure, that is why reports against slave labor in the US are poping up every now and then, because the laws are adhered to. Remember, the child labor is illegal in the DR, just how slave labor in farms in illegal in the US and yet, both are occuring right now in both places. So, what exactly is it that you are saying?

As a person that has not just driven by these workers but whose job it was to STOP and ENGAGE them as a government agent to make sure their RIGHTS were PROTECTED, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I know my heart and intentions were in the right place. And don't doubt it violators were PROSECUTED under my watch. I also INTIMATELY worked with Dept of Labor who was also there to do the same.

Good for you, however, if I did not knew anything I was talking about, why would a person like yourself (who self perceive to know about this) are wasting your time responding to me.

I know I would not waste my time with a person who simply "doesn't know what is talking about" unless I know that person knows at least as much as I know about the issue, don't you agree?

I've also travelled to their camps which in no shape, way or form do they compare to the standards of bateyes.

Of course not, the DR is 85 years behind the US. Now, would you compare those camps to the comfortable and spacious air conditioned homes that are so prevalent all over Florida? What happened to comparing apples to apples since people are always asking me to stop comparing the DR to the US?

Show by example, please.

Rather than pointing fingers outside, the DR and ruling families should check their conscious.

We are only trying to emulate that wonderful plan outsiders have been imposing on our country since the day we got our independence. But, those involved from afar always wash their hands of their sins.

BTW, I'm not responding in an intimidating manner, but rather in a calm manner. Sometimes its hard to depict how a person reacts by simply reading words on the net. No fighting intentions here.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Nals,

Those are your ideals.

Where are the suggestions for this problem in the DR? The government has openly denied it. Suggestions are what I am looking for. I know I don't have any immediate ones but I would like to hear yours since you usually have something to say...this is your chance once again to show us all the light.


-Lesley D-

And the US government has denied multiple times the problems with their invasion in Iraq, and that Free Trade exist (when we all know it doesnt) and that its fair (when we all know that its not), etc etc etc etc.

All I am showing is that if the big guys in this world does something, don't expect the little guy to do anything other than what the big powerful guy is doing.

And for the record, (and I have said this multiple times) my intentions for posting anything is not to change peoples mind, but simply to show the other side of the coin, because every issue has two sides.

Apparently some people feel threatened when I present the other side of the issue in a clear and detailed post. Otherwise, why would people debate with me so much?

I'm sorry I mess peoples agendas, but I believe in presenting both side of the arguments and letting people come to their own conclusions.