Azucar Amarga on Primer Impacto

[Marianopolita]

Nals,

Why do you think people don't know every issue has two sides? What you have stated is no news to me and I am sure it's nothing new to anyone here. So once again I would like to hear your suggestions. I have openly stated that I don't have any at this point but what I witnessed on Primer Impacto is deplorable and I think it needs to be addressed rather than swept under the table as most DR issues are by the government.

Suggestions please....


-Lesley D-

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

And the US government has denied multiple times the problems with their invasion in Iraq, and that Free Trade exist (when we all know it doesnt) and that its fair (when we all know that its not), etc etc etc etc.

All I am showing is that if the big guys in this world does something, don't expect the little guy to do anything other than what the big powerful guy is doing.

And for the record, (and I have said this multiple times) my intentions for posting anything is not to change peoples mind, but simply to show the other side of the coin, because every issue has two sides.

[NALs]

My suggestion would be to deport as many Haitians and encourage as many poor Dominicans to leave the country.

That would lower the number of unskilled workers in the country, which would create even greater demand on a per capita basis among those unskilled workers in the sugar industry. That would cause wages to increase and with higher wages, better standards of living.

Free market works when its actually free. Capitalism works. All people have to understand is the rules of the capitalistic game and adhere by them. You want higher wages, then we need less labor. You want more labor, then lower wages will be the result. It's that simple.

BTW, this is a quick short term solution.

[Marianopolita]

Nals,

As usual you circumvent the issue to your convenience. I will wait for a proper response from someone who has a conscientious understanding of the bigger problem at hand.


-Lesley D-

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

My suggestion would be to deport as many Haitians and encourage as many poor Dominicans to leave the country.

That would lower the number of unskilled workers in the country, which would create even greater demand on a per capita basis among those unskilled workers in the sugar industry. That would cause wages to increase and with higher wages, better standards of living.

Free market works when its actually free. Capitalism works. All people have to understand is the rules of the capitalistic game and adhere by them. You want higher wages, then we need less labor. You want more labor, then lower wages will be the result. It's that simple.

BTW, this is a quick short term solution.

[deelt]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

And Haitians are not involved in farms and/or prostitution in the DR against their will?

Please, explain the so called "different" issues.

If you can't see the differentness of the issues then I can't and don't have the time to help you understand.

Sure, that is why reports against slave labor in the US are poping up every now and then, because the laws are adhered to. Remember, the child labor is illegal in the DR, just how slave labor in farms in illegal in the US and yet, both are occuring right now in both places. So, what exactly is it that you are saying?

The DR gov't doesn't see the problem...and you don't either.
In the US when the problem arises, and it will since people will test the boundaries, prosecution is seen or financial retribution is exacted. Wall-Mart is feeling the heat and changes will be implemented.

Good for you, however, if I did not knew anything I was talking about, why would a person like yourself (who self perceive to know about this) are wasting your time responding to me.

I know I would not waste my time with a person who simply "doesn't know what is talking about" unless I know that person knows at least as much as I know about the issue, don't you agree?

Sigh!

Of course not, the DR is 85 years behind the US. Now, would you compare those camps to the comfortable and spacious air conditioned homes that are so prevalent all over Florida? What happened to comparing apples to apples since people are always asking me to stop comparing the DR to the US?

Show by example, please.

It sure seems convenient to pick and choose when and what to compare isn't it? It goes both ways. While this was not an issue I presented, I do recall that DR has some really nice AC'ed homes and very beautiful areas where people live very comfortably. You can even start nearby the bateyes, to the landowners homes. Who knows it might even be yours. Feeling refreshed? hahahaha

We are only trying to emulate that wonderful plan outsiders have been imposing on our country since the day we got our independence. But, those involved from afar always wash their hands of their sins.

BTW, I'm not responding in an intimidating manner, but rather in a calm manner. Sometimes its hard to depict how a person reacts by simply reading words on the net. No fighting intentions here.

Neither am I.

[NALs]

Why do you think people don't know every issue has two sides?

I know people are aware of the two issue deal. Ever notice how many threads here end up highly opinionated with nobody presenting the other argument. Everybody ends up thinking the same. Everybody has their mind made up for them.

I just don't like to take away peoples freedom of making their own decisions while understanding both sides of the arguments. That's all.

What you have stated is no news to me and I am sure it's nothing new to anyone here. So once again I would like to hear your suggestions.

What everybody has stated here is no news to anybody, but apparently it sparks interest in yourself and Deelt and a few others who continue to post!

[Marianopolita]

Nals,

Well we continue to post because it's a thread. Are you not posting?

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

I know people are aware of the two issue deal. Ever notice how many threads here end up highly opinionated with nobody presenting the other argument. Everybody ends up thinking the same. Everybody has their mind made up for them.

I just don't like to take away peoples freedom of making their own decisions while understanding both sides of the arguments. That's all.


What everybody has stated here is no news to anybody, but apparently it sparks interest in yourself and Deelt and a few others who continue to post!

[NALs]

If you can't see the differentness of the issues then I can't and don't have the time to help you understand.

What I don't understand is the constant switching when comparing.

One minute, you compare higher standards of Dominican living to the Bateyes. Then you compare and constrast the DR to the US.

Then you tell me to not comapre the DR to US, etc etc etc.

Don't tell others to do something you yourself are not willing to do. It will save you alot of back and forth arguments, at least from my part.

It sure seems convenient to pick and choose when and what to compare isn't it? It goes both ways. While this was not an issue I presented, I do recall that DR has some really nice AC'ed homes and very beautiful areas where people live very comfortably. You can even start nearby the bateyes, to the landowners homes. Who knows it might even be yours. Feeling refreshed? hahahaha

I'll stop picking and choosing when everybody else stops the hypocrasy as well. Fair is fair.

I never tell people to do something that I myself am not willing to do, however people here tell me to not compare the DR to US and then they turn and compare the DR to US.

Go figure...

And about the disparities in income, remember, we work under capitalism. Everything is not sweet and fair under this or any other economic system, period.

That's why when you go to major cities in the US, you see homeless peoples who are worst off than you, now, does that makes you feel guilty? After all, everything you have you have acquired through your own hard work, I suppose and I'm sure you don't feel guilty for being better off due to your hard work.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Nals,

Well we continue to post because it's a thread. Are you not posting?

I am posting because I feel threatened since I presented the other argument.

Don't get me wrong, I always expect some resistance of some sort when presenting the argument "against the current", but you guys are really pounding here.

Why have I moved you guys to the point of getting out of topic?

All I did was present the other side of the story, that is it. The other side, not demanding people to agree with me, just asking people to acknoledge the other side. That is all.

However, I get the feeling you guys want me to agree to your positions here or for myself to get exausted of going back and forth.

I just don't think my comments were so threatning to such extent to your arguments earlier in the thread!

[deelt]

Actually the highest posters on this thread happen to be good old Stewart (hi!), you (for your interest on the show) and Nal0whs (who in fact is the lead in engaging others in conversation or "lively" discussion). I am among the fewest posters on this thead.

I really have to get back to work.
D

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Nals,

Well we continue to post because it's a thread. Are you not posting?

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

but apparently it sparks interest in yourself and Deelt and a few others who continue to post!

[Narcosis]

I think everyone can agree that conditions in the bateyes are deplorable, no one is denying this fact not even the government, nonetheless to say that slavery exists would open up a debate to what your definition of this is, because it seems people have different opinions about this.

As Nals mentioned if conditions in DR bateyes are categorized as slavery than it is also present in the US. The only difference is that the actual structures workers live in the US are made of more modern materials than in the bateyes, but the conditions are similar; no healthcare, no schools, in many cases no electricity or heating for winter months.

I have seen workers camps in Georgia and these rural camps that are too far from the city exclude the workers from any sort of state protection even to the point where crimes go un-reported.

Why is this of any relevance when we are talking about the DR? it is simple.
small, poor countries such as the DR are easy targets and don't have the means to protect themselves from this negative propaganda which is perpetuated in many cases to be used against us in negotiations at the WTO or UN.

The problem does exist and people DO care about it, but as in the US and elsewhere solutions are much more difficult than just wanting them to be solved. Globalization is a tough game that needs to be played with clear rules applied to all not only to the weakest links. Until this happens things will only get worse.