Dominicans "Voting" With Their Feet

[millard]

Despite a higher peso, lower inflation, stable exchange rate, and lower prices on some domestic goods since Fernandez took over, every other day there's a story in El Nacional about large numbers of Dominicans risking their lives to get to Puerto Rico. (Take a look at the following articles: http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=27340 http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=27107 )

The fact is that more Dominicans try to reach the U.S. every year than Haitians and Cubans combined. Last year was a record year for yolas crossing the shark-infested Mona Passage according to the U.S. Border Patrol, despite all the billboards and ads warning people that it's a trip of "death." I believe that for every 1 person desperate enough to risk their life on a yola, there's at least 100 secretly searching for a less dangerous way out.

All of this tells me that the Dominican lower class (roughly 70% of the population) has lost faith in the economy and don't believe that Leonel or anybody else can make any meaningful changes in the short term. It also shows that the Dominican poor don't believe there's much chance of upward mobility either. Let's face it, what work is there really for the masses of Dominicans unlucky enough to have zero social or political connections and no rich relatives. Have you seen how few employment ads there are in the Listin Diario? Its because most of the decent jobs are never advertised. Even if you're fortunate enough to have a college degree, many employers are still looking for persons with "buena presencia."

Its not enough to make changes to the exchange rate or lower the price of rice and chicken. To restore faith in the system and slow -- never stop -- the flow of yolas, Fernandez has to also address the rigid class system that stifles "la esperanza" among the poor. The government has to make people believe that they can get ahead here if they work hard and follow the rules. Only suckers believe that now.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by millard

Despite a higher peso, lower inflation, stable exchange rate, and lower prices on some domestic goods since Fernandez took over, every other day there's a story in El Nacional about large numbers of Dominicans risking their lives to get to Puerto Rico. (Take a look at the following articles: http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=27340 http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=27107 )

The fact is that more Dominicans try to reach the U.S. every year than Haitians and Cubans combined. Last year was a record year for yolas crossing the shark-infested Mona Passage according to the U.S. Border Patrol, despite all the billboards and ads warning people that it's a trip of "death." I believe that for every 1 person desperate enough to risk their life on a yola, there's at least 100 secretly searching for a less dangerous way out.

All of this tells me that the Dominican lower class (roughly 70% of the population) has lost faith in the economy and don't believe that Leonel or anybody else can make any meaningful changes in the short term. It also shows that the Dominican poor don't believe there's much chance of upward mobility either. Let's face it, what work is there really for the masses of Dominicans unlucky enough to have zero social or political connections and no rich relatives. Have you seen how few employment ads there are in the Listin Diario? Its because most of the decent jobs are never advertised. Even if you're fortunate enough to have a college degree, many employers are still looking for persons with "buena presencia."

Its not enough to make changes to the exchange rate or lower the price of rice and chicken. To restore faith in the system and slow -- never stop -- the flow of yolas, Fernandez has to also address the rigid class system that stifles "la esperanza" among the poor. The government has to make people believe that they can get ahead here if they work hard and follow the rules. Only suckers believe that now.

Remember, half of last year consisted of Hipolito rule.

Please try to get the numbers on a monthly basis. This should show the difference between the months when Hipolito ruled and the months after Leonel took over.

[stewart]

I won't argue specific numbers here. But I will say that almost all of the wealthier Dominicans that I know are looking to leave the country. These are people that can afford any lifet style they chosse in the DR. THe best schools for their kids etc. And they think Miami would be better.

[Criss Colon]

To what it is like to live in the DR!
You are single and have no kids!!
You have no idea what it costs to raise a family here,or what the actual prices of "La Canasta Familiar" are!
I have nine people to maintain in my house,10 if you include the maid!
Four children,two of them under three years old.You don't know the price of "Pampers",powdered milk,childhood immunizations,school,books,visits to the doctor,clothes,nothing!
You want to know why people are still risking their lives to leave this sinking ship,because they,and their children are hungry!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCC

[millard]

Originally Posted by Criss Colon

To what it is like to live in the DR!
You are single and have no kids!!
You have no idea what it costs to raise a family here,or what the actual prices of "La Canasta Familiar" are!
I have nine people to maintain in my house,10 if you include the maid!
Four children,two of them under three years old.You don't know the price of "Pampers",powdered milk,childhood immunizations,school,books,visits to the doctor,clothes,nothing!
You want to know why people are still risking their lives to leave this sinking ship,because they,and their children are hungry!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCC

Criss, I couldn't have put it any better.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Criss Colon

To what it is like to live in the DR!
You are single and have no kids!!
You have no idea what it costs to raise a family here,or what the actual prices of "La Canasta Familiar" are!
I have nine people to maintain in my house,10 if you include the maid!
Four children,two of them under three years old.You don't know the price of "Pampers",powdered milk,childhood immunizations,school,books,visits to the doctor,clothes,nothing!
You want to know why people are still risking their lives to leave this sinking ship,because they,and their children are hungry!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCC

I hate to break it to you, but nobody forced you to have so many kids.

I'm sure they are wonderful and they are your life right now, but family planning and wealth go hand in hand.

In a country as this, where one day everything is fine and the next its not, at best 1 child is enough. Even then, you have to think about it really hard.

It baffles my mind why certain people have so many kids, especially when they can't even feed their ownselves when they were single and childless! Don't they know they are not going to be able to feed the kids?

I don't understand why CC is complaining.

Didn't you know of the risk of having more than 1 child in this country?
Didn't you know of the volatility of the economy?
Everybody knows the more kids you have, the poorer you'll be. That's a risk everybody takes when having children, its an even bigger risk if they have multiple children without considering many possible unfavorable scenarios between the birth day and the college graduation day.

That's enough time for your entire world to take a 360 degree turn!

I guess you knew all of that (since you are a college graduate, I suppose you did evaluated your options and possible consequences), but kept going at it anyways.

There is not much I can say, other than you (and a good chunck of the population here) brought their personal problems upon themselves. They played with fire knowing the risks and now, they are getting burned.

Many blame the economy and yes, the Economy has alot to do with it, but everybody knew that the possibility of economic meltdown existed. Why did people did not acted accordingly during the good years?

I guess this is one of the self imposed medicines that people have to take!

[stewart]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

I hate to break it to you, but nobody forced you to have so many kids.

I'm sure they are wonderful and they are your life right now, but family planning and wealth go hand in hand.

In a country as this, where one day everything is fine and the next its not, at best 1 child is enough. Even then, you have to think about it really hard.

It baffles my mind why poor people have so many kids. Don't they know they are not going to be able to feed them?

Now, I don't understand why CC is complaining. Didn't you know of the risk of having more than 1 child in this country? Didn't you know of the volatility of the economy?

I guess you knew, but kept going at it anyways.

There is not much I can say, other than you (and a good chunck of the population here) brought their personal problems upon themselves. They played with fire knowing the risks and now, they are getting burned.

Usually I agree with you. But this post sent me through the roof.
Can't you see that in a normal, civilized, progreesive 1st world country, you can count on some sense of security for a family? The lack thereof is precisely what CC is talking about. The volitile nature of the Dominican economy send people on jollas to PR. So you severly contradicted yourself in your post.
As for the high birth rate among the poorer classe. Come on!! It's common among very poor people in poor countries with a very MACHO male population to be promiscuous and not use protection. It can be seen in Haiti, Africa etc.
So don't just wonder in awe why people are having so many children they can't afford.
You're a smart guy. You can do better than your last post.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by stewart

Usually I agree with you. But this post sent me through the roof.
Can't you see that in a normal, civilized, progreesive 1st world country, you can count on some sense of security for a family? The lack thereof is precisely what CC is talking about. The volitile nature of the Dominican economy send people on jollas to PR. So you severly contradicted yourself in your post.
As for the high birth rate among the poorer classe. Come on!! It's common among very poor people in poor countries with a very MACHO male population to be promiscuous and not use protection. It can be seen in Haiti, Africa etc.
So don't just wonder in awe why people are having so many children they can't afford.
You're a smart guy. You can do better than your last post.

Since when are we a 1st world country?

I think CC and the rest of the crew knows this is not a 1st world country, and they knew the risks.

And when I ask about why people have more kids when they know they can't afford it, I did not meant it in the sense of "I don't truly know why".

I know the macho influence and everything else. I just don't understand why people complaint when before they put themselves at risks they knew exactly what they were getting into.

Having children is not a game in the park. This is a decision that will impact every aspect of a person from the moment the baby is born until you die.

You must plan carefully, figure out the opportunity costs of having 1 child, a second child, etc given the current economic circumstances. Factor in the possibilities of better economic situation in the future, worst economic situations in the future etc.

Figure out how much it would cost to bring up one child. How much can you handle. Will you be able to take care of the child in good times and bad.

In short, will you be able to afford the child in the worst economic situation. That is what's behind this. If its possible that you can do this with 1 child and still be comfortable, then have one child.

If, on the other hand, you are going to be a little tight with the money with having one child, then don't have the child.

If you can't afford something, don't get it.

If this means having no unprotected sex, then that's the price you must pay for your economic security. If you don't care about your economic security until its too late, then go ahead and have the children.

Just don't come complaining when reality struck, especially if you were aware of the risks before you brought the problem upon yourself.

[Criss Colon]

Sorry,but I guess that English will ALWAYS be a second language for you,Nalawls.
Stewart DID NOT say that the DR is a First World Country!He said that the DR lacks what one takes for granted in a First World Country!
As for MY PART,I am not "crying poor",I am lamenting the high prices of raising a family in the DR,and using same as a reason why so many dominicans are willing to risk their lives to get out.
If you ever do plan to marry,pray that noone EVER shows these posts of your's to your "Novia".She will drop you like a "Hot Jonnicake"!

Now,as to my 4 dominican children,you should be congratulating me,I am "Mejorando Su Raza"!!
My American son just graduated from UMass,with a degree in Economics.I don't think he will be asking for a refund any time soon!

[stewart]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

Since when are we a 1st world country?

I think CC and the rest of the crew knows this is not a 1st world country, and they knew the risks.

And when I ask about why people have more kids when they know they can't afford it, I did not meant it in the sense of "I don't truly know why".

I know the macho influence and everything else. I just don't understand why people complaint when before they put themselves at risks they knew exactly what they were getting into.

Having children is not a game in the park. This is a decision that will impact every aspect of a person from the moment the baby is born until you die.

You must plan carefully, figure out the opportunity costs of having 1 child, a second child, etc given the current economic circumstances. Factor in the possibilities of better economic situation in the future, worst economic situations in the future etc.

Figure out how much it would cost to bring up one child. How much can you handle. Will you be able to take care of the child in good times and bad.

In short, will you be able to afford the child in the worst economic situation. That is what's behind this. If its possible that you can do this with 1 child and still be comfortable, then have one child.

If, on the other hand, you are going to be a little tight with the money with having one child, then don't have the child.

If you can't afford something, don't get it.

If this means having no unprotected sex, then that's the price you must pay for your economic security. If you don't care about your economic security until its too late, then go ahead and have the children.

Just don't come complaining when reality struck, especially if you were aware of the risks before you brought the problem upon yourself.

Now you're making more sense. A family does need to be well planned. You should not have a bunch of kids you know you can't afford. But the one thing you should not have to worry about is a major economic melt down due to government irresponsibility. You should at least be able to count on that secutrity.
As for all the poeple that do leave in yolas: I think it is cultural as much as anything. ANd as long as the Joe's that clean bath rooms in NY are going back with the gold chains and lying about how much money can be made, then the poor will always want to leave. The grass is always greenr...
I have not seen a decrease of complaints from my friends since Leonel took office. Prices are still too high. There aren't any good jobs etc. I don't know one person that wouldn't leave at the drop of a hat. Although they aren't desperate enough for the boat ride yet.