Dominican Beliefs

[Hillbilly]

Allow me to state a few principles of the Sociaological Approach to History.
1) All groups MUST resolve a very basic and UNIVERSAL necessity: They have to answer the Question: Why am I here?

In order to do this, they have to develop some sort of metaphysical explanation as well as develop an escathalogy (dealing with final things).

This Christians, Muslums, Jews, Hindus etc have done quite well.

Dawn's "Whomever" somebody else's Lord...They are there all the time in some shape or form...

That said: Catholics have no beef with Darwin. None at all. As long as it is accepted that when Man became cognicent he is accepted as having a soul, the Catholics have no problem with evolution.

The nonsence that is now cropping up like weeds is pure malarky, that is for sure..and this is not Dominican beliefs. Dominicans don't know Darwin from their butts! Nor do they know the "Religious Right" that spouts the bologny called "alternates creationism" ...

Now, as a people, as so many have stated, quite rightly--I laughted to see so many women being submitted to these beliefs-Dominicans do have a plethora of incredible folktales.

And by the way, that thing about opening the fridge is fairly modern....

Ones I have heard:
1) A young woman "coming of age" can't eat any citrus fruit.
2) That black "thingy" is called a "Asabache" and is used to ward off the "mal de ojo" .
3) That little bag worn around the neck of those naked little children is filled with garlic to ward off really evil spirits.
4) If you come across a set of crossed branches on your doorstep, watch out. Someone had done a "job" on you.
5) If things are going bad, a dip in the ocean will wash away the bad spirits.

There are others, but I am too tired....

Love and peace to you all, and to all a good night.

HB

[asopao]

Originally Posted by deelt

Most of the Santeria/voodoo practices is in the following of Yoruban Iwa religion. So that's the flavor/picante we add.

Because I love to conserve energy and gas, I don't drive an SUV. LOL I am also glad that all things come to an end...even the basic tenet of thermodynamic says so. However, I recognize that we only use 10% of our brain capacity.

Indeed T, I am with Q on this one. There is something to that "the sixth sense" some blessed people have.

Wish I can talk about this topic for a while but I'll be internet-less this weekend.

Spiritually yours,
D

Is Santeria an import from Cuba to DR?

I don't think Vodou is Yoruba origin. I've read is of Ewe origin, an ethnicity in what is now Togo.

[Tordok]

Quisqueya & Deelt,
We could reduce my beliefs into Deism. I'm open to the presence of a spiritual reality but based on the use of reason and not supertstition. It blends scientific rigor with mystic awe, and no rituals nor dogmas are needed to feel the blessings of Nature and to be in communion with mankind.

My statements essentially reflect my view that there are many things for which science is the best tool around, but quite insufficient to help us grasp our whole 'perceived' reality. I am therefore unable to profess the more extreme materialistic- "soul-less" - views. So religious beliefs and myths are metaphors for something we perceive to be there, but cannot decode. Maybe divinely preordained, maybe a species-specific delusion.

I happen to think that there are forces that are a mystery to us. I do believe that there are forms of communication among humans and nature for which we can't find the right 'frequency' or physical mechanism. But I am always tempted to consider something mopre simple, like tricks of consciuosness coming from overachieving neurons. Such beliefs IMO do not invalidate the transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer. It is when people start telling me that they KNOW what God wants because it was so written by some tribal goatherder several millenia ago, I get a bit testy.

But I do respect even those kinds of beliefs because I expect mine to be considered just as valid. We are allowed to fantasize about the ethereal realms of our lives in different ways and still share and grow in our humanity. It would be much less colorful without the cultural legaciy of our ancestors, whom with their limited knowledge of science developed a variety of cute pagan rituals but also other not-so-cute folk faiths, like blood rites and cannibalism in many cultures. Talismanes and other regalia, evil eye, etc IMO is pretty harmless stuff really, and very rich in human psychology. Those things are remnants of our superstitious past as a species. The real danger comes from religious fanatics with political agendas in today's world. Those rigid, and often brainless, dogmas keep many people divorced from their own natural qualities and away from forming a genuine brotherhood of mankind.
- Tordok

for more info on Deism:
http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

[deelt]

Sorry Asopao I can't get into an in depth discussion with you on this one.
It's just not my area of expertise. But my gut reaction based on what I have read is that Santeria and Vodou are just strains are all of Yoruba origin, something withi is spread region wide and is not nation specific. So basically there is not right or wrong here.

The differences lie in that as slaves were forced to convert to catholism they superimposed the name of their favored saints on the spirits they were accostumed to praising/praying to. Thus when the slave masters came around they throught it was one thing when it was another.

Ex. Chango/Candelo (Santa Barbara) = Orisa/Orisha

The church also did their best to incorporate the pagan rituals into mainstream "holidays". This is why Carnival is everywhere in Lat. Am and Caribbean where there are folks of color.

Originally Posted by asopao

Is Santeria an import from Cuba to DR?

I don't think Vodou is Yoruba origin. I've read is of Ewe origin, an ethnicity in what is now Togo.

[deelt]

We agree in much with regards to the use of talismen and other such things. I would even recognize the context in which you define "transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer." As for the Bible, I am sure you know where I stand on that....it is what faith is all about. But for me it is not incongruent. Everything is not detailed in the Bible blow by blow. I think there is room for understanding, curiosity, and investigation.

Wish I could dialogue more but I have to run.
D

Originally Posted by Tordok

Quisqueya & Deelt,
We could reduce my beliefs into Deism. I'm open to the presence of a spiritual reality but based on the use of reason and not supertstition. It blends scientific rigor with mystic awe, and no rituals nor dogmas are needed to feel the blessings of Nature and to be in communion with mankind.

My statements essentially reflect my view that there are many things for which science is the best tool around, but quite insufficient to help us grasp our whole 'perceived' reality. I am therefore unable to profess the more extreme materialistic- "soul-less" - views. So religious beliefs and myths are metaphors for something we perceive to be there, but cannot decode. Maybe divinely preordained, maybe a species-specific delusion.

I happen to think that there are forces that are a mystery to us. I do believe that there are forms of communication among humans and nature for which we can't find the right 'frequency' or physical mechanism. But I am always tempted to consider something mopre simple, like tricks of consciuosness coming from overachieving neurons. Such beliefs IMO do not invalidate the transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer. It is when people start telling me that they KNOW what God wants because it was so written by some tribal goatherder several millenia ago, I get a bit testy.

But I do respect even those kinds of beliefs because I expect mine to be considered just as valid. We are allowed to fantasize about the ethereal realms of our lives in different ways and still share and grow in our humanity. It would be much less colorful without the cultural legaciy of our ancestors, whom with their limited knowledge of science developed a variety of cute pagan rituals but also other not-so-cute folk faiths, like blood rites and cannibalism in many cultures. Talismanes and other regalia, evil eye, etc IMO is pretty harmless stuff really, and very rich in human psychology. Those things are remnants of our superstitious past as a species. The real danger comes from religious fanatics with political agendas in today's world. Those rigid, and often brainless, dogmas keep many people divorced from their own natural qualities and away from forming a genuine brotherhood of mankind.
- Tordok

for more info on Deism:
http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

[asdavila]

But being puertorrican the "expected dramatic cultural trauma" didn´t happen.

First santería and vodoo are different things. But that is not the toic here and if the difference need to stablished, I am not qualified. However I know they are not the same.

In Puerto Rico when I was raised, we didn´t have "santería", and vodoo I heard only in movies. There was, and still there is, a lot of "espiritismo" (Spiritism? sp), and you could find it in every social class, mainly among those so called catholics. Santería, I think is also practiced much more now than those days, mainly due to, IMO, to the cuban influence. Can´t say due to Dominican influence because it was there in the 70´s and in those days the Dominicans living in Puerto Rico were not that many.

Now, regardless of the cultural background of the people around me, I choose to believe in what I believe. And let others choose what they want to.
I don´t get into these arguments.

There has to be a variety of beliefs, we are so many and so complicated that probably God created something for each one of us. I myself don´t believe in Adam and Eve, but I respect those who do, and they are not going to steal my peace.

I live peacefully in Dominican Republic, and if the governments (all of them) of this great land allow me to... I will stay here until I die.

[Quisqueya]

Santeria and Voudou have its differences but also have alot of similarities. Both religion mix Catholic Saints with their respective dieties. The Orishas/Santeria and Lwa/Voudou are spirits originated from Yoruba & Dahomey tribes in West Africa.

Each island Cuba. Haiti & DR, Puerto Rico practice these religions and varies form country to country...

Santeria/Voudou was in Puerto Rico wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy b4 the Cubans or the Dominicans. The african slaves brought to the island of Puerto Rico practiced these religions as well. Places like Loiza are places where the Santeria/Voudou influence was very strong...which is still prevelant today..without the effect of the dominican/cuban exodus to Puerto Rico..

Originally Posted by asdavila

But being puertorrican the "expected dramatic cultural trauma" didn´t happen.

First santería and vodoo are different things. But that is not the toic here and if the difference need to stablished, I am not qualified. However I know they are not the same.

In Puerto Rico when I was raised, we didn´t have "santería", and vodoo I heard only in movies. There was, and still there is, a lot of "espiritismo" (Spiritism? sp), and you could find it in every social class, mainly among those so called catholics. Santería, I think is also practiced much more now than those days, mainly due to, IMO, to the cuban influence. Can´t say due to Dominican influence because it was there in the 70´s and in those days the Dominicans living in Puerto Rico were not that many.

Now, regardless of the cultural background of the people around me, I choose to believe in what I believe. And let others choose what they want to.
I don´t get into these arguments.

There has to be a variety of beliefs, we are so many and so complicated that probably God created something for each one of us. I myself don´t believe in Adam and Eve, but I respect those who do, and they are not going to steal my peace.

I live peacefully in Dominican Republic, and if the governments (all of them) of this great land allow me to... I will stay here until I die.

[Chirimoya]

Santeria (Cuba), vodou (Haiti), candomble (NE Brazil) and the 'religiosidad popular' rituals in the Dominican Republic... they are all very similar. There are many anthropological studies that trace all these syncretic beliefs to their African roots.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Santeria (Cuba), vodou (Haiti), candomble (NE Brazil) and the 'religiosidad popular' rituals in the Dominican Republic... they are all very similar. There are many anthropological studies that trace all these syncretic beliefs to their African roots.

In my opinion, they are all the samething.

Sure, there might be some minute differences, but its all pretty much the same.

However, its important to point out that these "religions" or "cults" (depends whose talking about this and their feelings towards this type of stuff) are a blend of African and European religious items, beliefs, prayers, among other things. There might be some native Taino influences, but that is hard to prove since the Taino's form of praying and "pleasing the Gods" is very similar to how these contemporary religions please their own God or Gods (ie. leaving food for the spirits, dancing, praying or using statues of Gods or saints, etc)

These religions are new world creations, they may have similarities to African religions and European religious (albeit, people have a tendency of ignoring the European part of these religions, such as the use of Catholic saints, etc) and thus are uniquely Hispanic or Latin American in nature. A blend of two or more cultures once again, except this is in religious terms.

It's also important that some of the superstitious belief that exist along mediterranean Europe (Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy, etc) are very similar to the belief of these new world religion, such as the belief in the evil eye, etc.

In southern Italy, for example, they even have "pray houses" where Italians leave a section of a doll (a leg, a head, or some other part) and some how those sections are suppose to represent that particular section in the person's body and thus, the Gods or spirits are suppose to heal it via the representation of the doll to the person. There are plenty of other similarity with new world religions as well.

My point in all of this is the following, these are unique new world religions. It's a result of the mixing of peoples from around the world that is prevailant in these region of the planet.

Thus, let's treat them as new world creations, because that's what they truly are.

They might have influences from many places, including Africa, Europe, maybe even from native indians, but that does not erases the fact that these religions came into their modern existence after the cultures began to mix, rather than before.

BTW, many Dominicans of all classes refer to curanderos and/or brujos from time to time. Of course, its more prevailant among the lower classes, but most Dominicans of all classes will visit a curandero or brujo at one point in their lives.

Of course, this is very hush hush, at all levels of society as well.

[Mirador]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Santeria (Cuba), vodou (Haiti), candomble (NE Brazil) and the 'religiosidad popular' rituals in the Dominican Republic... they are all very similar. There are many anthropological studies that trace all these syncretic beliefs to their African roots.

Most folk religious beliefs lack the defining institutional structures of dogma and priest(ess)hood. They're much like wild flowers that cross-pollinate with other beliefs (It would be pretentious to even call them belief 'systems'), continuously changing and morphing (syncretizing) over time. In the case of the DR, the folk religious belief system that shows the most structure is called 'La 21 Division'. It took me years of interviews with practitioners to find out that there's no such thing as 21 individual and separate divisions. That '21 División' is an emblem, a symbol from unknown origin, used in a cabalistic manner, and stands for 'El Misterio'. In numerology 3 X 4 = 7, 7 X 3 = 21 goes way back, even to the Upanishads, as the number Seven was used to represent all association with God. And 3, the divine triad, La Santísima Trinidad....