When does a dominican American (morenos) become an African American or Puerto Rican?

[Lovelylocs]

I went to a luncheon with a professor of Dominican studies from SUNY. She gave us a presentation on the statistics concerning dominican americans. she said that it is hard to record dominican ancestry after 3 generation b/c 4th and 5th generation dominican americans usually identify themselves as smthg else. She said that they either start identifying themselves as black/African Americans or some other latino group (b/c they intermarry w/that latino group). I am guessing that the lighter dominicans that can pass for white probably identify as white by the 4th and 5th generation if they cant be recorded easily either. The interesting thing about this is that most dominican americans that I have met do not consider themselves to be African Americans, but hispanic/latino. In your opinions, when does a black dominican American become an African American?

[daddy1]

If your born in the U.S. then you are an American of Dominican descent...if you were born in South Africa or anywhere in that continent and your Dominican, then I guess you would be considered an African of Dominican descent or simply put an African Dominican....the Dominican culture has a melting pot of many other cultures, I'm not an expert, but I have seen chinese desendents, African, native Indian, Spanish of spain etc. and last but not least, Dominican's consider themselves Dominican, the black and white issue is looked at with a grain of salt....the proper wording for describing folks in the Dominican community is either a darker skinned Dominican or a lighters skinned Dominican.... white Dominicans like "Nicole Kidman" types, barely! caramel colored Dominican's all over the place, Dominicans that look hindu of a brownish complection, all over the place, and yes some mulato Dominicans with deep African roots in the ancestry exist as well...but none the less Dominicans.

[Lovelylocs]

Originally Posted by daddy1

If your born in the U.S. then you are an American of Dominican descent...if you were born in South Africa or anywhere in that continent and your Dominican, then I guess you would be considered an African of Dominican descent or simply put an African Dominican....the Dominican culture has a melting pot of many other cultures, I'm not an expert, but I have seen chinese desendents, African, native Indian, Spanish of spain etc. and last but not least, Dominican's consider themselves Dominican, the black and white issue is looked at with a grain of salt....the proper wording for describing folks in the Dominican community is either a darker skinned Dominican or a lighters skinned Dominican.... white Dominicans like "Nicole Kidman" types, barely! caramel colored Dominican's all over the place, Dominicans that look hindu of a brownish complection, all over the place, and yes some mulato Dominicans with deep African roots in the ancestry exist as well...but none the less Dominicans.

This was a very nice post!

[Criss Colon]

or anywhere else in the entire World,who would refer to themself as "Afro-American"!!!!!!!
PI$$ES OFF American "Blacks", who feel that dominicans should embrace their "African ROOTS!", but Dominicans prefer to acknowledge their "Spanish",or "Non-Existant" Taino Indian ancestry!!
My beautiful Dominican wife who is "Afro-Carribean",prefers to say that she is "Indiasita Clara"! I always ask her if she has ever looked in a mirror when she says that!
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[helpmann]

Originally Posted by Lovelylocs

I went to a luncheon with a professor of Dominican studies from SUNY. She gave us a presentation on the statistics concerning dominican americans. she said that it is hard to record dominican ancestry after 3 generation b/c 4th and 5th generation dominican americans usually identify themselves as smthg else. She said that they either start identifying themselves as black/African Americans or some other latino group (b/c they intermarry w/that latino group). I am guessing that the lighter dominicans that can pass for white probably identify as white by the 4th and 5th generation if they cant be recorded easily either. The interesting thing about this is that most dominican americans that I have met do not consider themselves to be African Americans, but hispanic/latino. In your opinions, when does a black dominican American become an African American?

I think the question that you should be asking is when do immigrants that come to the United States begin to identify themselves as either White, Black, Latino, or Asian and no longer by their "former" nationality (Italian, Irish, Russian, Polish, Dominican, Cuban, Jamaican, Puerto Rican, Mexican, Chinese, Korean, Canadian... or Italian-American, Irish-American, Russia-American, Polish-American, Dominican-American, Mexican-American, Chinese-American...) Depending on family ties and environment it could be as little as 2 generations or as great as 10 generations. There are still plenty of people who refer to themselves as Italian or Irish, who don't speak Italian or Gaelic (of course even in Ireland no one speaks Gaelic), who have never been to Italy or Ireland, and who's family immigrated to the US 100 years ago.

I believe that you are who you believe yourself to be...


Helpmann "The World's Greatest Lover"

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Criss Colon

or anywhere else in the entire World,who would refer to themself as "Afro-American"!!!!!!!
PI$$ES OFF American "Blacks", who feel that dominicans should embrace their "African ROOTS!", but Dominicans prefer to acknowledge their "Spanish",or "Non-Existant" Taino Indian ancestry!!
My beautiful Dominican wife who is "Afro-Carribean",prefers to say that she is "Indiasita Clara"! I always ask her if she has ever looked in a mirror when she says that!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCC

Of course,

then the question is:

Why are American "blacks", as you put it, the only one's getting agitated about this?

The Haitians seem to not care, the Jamaicans either, nor does any of the multiple Afro-based and Afro-inspired communities that exist in most Latin American countries and in Canada and some European nations!

Personally, I think many Afro-Americans (notice, not all, but many) are indenial to the fact that not all afro-based peoples in this world feel a need to form their own seperate identity within a society.

Why?

Because their identity is blended in the mainstream society, along with the European and native ancestry as well. Through out Latin America, blacks dance to European based music, whites believe in African inspired spirits, and everybody eats some food that was part of the natives!

This is what Americans fail to understand. Perhaps one needs to be born into such society to understand why this is the case?!

-NAL

[neverlost]

It's the same thing, seen from 2 different historical view points:

Here in America historically, if you have ANY Black blood you are considered Black. This fact has been overstated in about every post about race on this site that I've seen so far. Thus, when a black American sees a person who shows undeniable signs of an African presence in his/her gene pool, they will probably come to the conclusion that he is black.

Keep in mind, that these definitions were not created by Blacks but by Whites, To keep Those with Black Blood separate. Yet blacks have kept them in place to a certain degree. Because of this those of African parentage and Partial Africans have traditionally rallied behind that in which we have been rejected for... Being black. Now because of the overall racial experiences of many African Americans for a man or woman who is obviously or mostly in some part black, to utterly deny that heritage could be a clear sign of deep self hatred (or even mental illness, depending the said individuals phenotype).


Now here's my Observation: 1) Some Blacks are trying to IMPOSE a black identity on Dominicans while not understanding the history of where they come from (Hispanola), and what it means to be Black there. 2) Dominicans (And many Latinos in general) definitely do not understand who is consider black In the U.S. ,who Blacks are AND what the have Accomplished here, and are bringing there views(negative) of Blacks from Latin America and picking up some of the racist attitudes of whites here in the U.S.. 3) However, many Dominicans and other Latinos, are being consider black here in the U.S. because of this, AND trend/quagmire many are taking the initiative to learn more about what some called there "Negritude." Others, Just share neighborhoods, schools, etc., with Blacks and just base there opinions and feelings about their own blackness (or lack thereof) on what they witness and their own personal experience with blacks. If these individual Dominicans who look similar to blacks develop Relationships with Blacks, sometimes they will consider themselves to be Black also.

These articles, deal the realities of Black and White in US verses the Latin world.The first Article is especially Poignant.

Best of Friends, Worlds Apart

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...jito-cuba.html

This one is about how the police see "Blacks" and "Dominicans" in NYC.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...nerip-cops.htm

[NALs]

Originally Posted by neverlost

It's the same thing, seen from 2 different historical view points:

Here in America historically, if you have ANY Black blood you are considered Black. This fact has been overstated in about every post about race on this site that I've seen so far. Thus, when a black American sees a person who shows undeniable signs of an African presence in his/her gene pool, they will probably come to the conclusion that he is black.

Keep in mind, that these definitions were not created by Blacks but by Whites, To keep Those with Black Blood separate. Yet blacks have kept them in place to a certain degree. Because of this those of African parentage and Partial Africans have traditionally rallied behind that in which we have been rejected for... Being black. Now because of the overall racial experiences of many African Americans for a man or woman who is obviously or mostly in some part black, to utterly deny that heritage could be a clear sign of deep self hatred (or even mental illness, depending the said individuals phenotype).


Now here's my Observation: 1) Some Blacks are trying to IMPOSE a black identity on Dominicans while not understanding the history of where they come from (Hispanola), and what it means to be Black there. 2) Dominicans (And many Latinos in general) definitely do not understand who is consider black In the U.S. ,who Blacks are AND what the have Accomplished here, and are bringing there views(negative) of Blacks from Latin America and picking up some of the racist attitudes of whites here in the U.S.. 3) However, many Dominicans and other Latinos, are being consider black here in the U.S. because of this, AND trend/quagmire many are taking the initiative to learn more about what some called there "Negritude." Others, Just share neighborhoods, schools, etc., with Blacks and just base there opinions and feelings about their own blackness (or lack thereof) on what they witness and their own personal experience with blacks. If these individual Dominicans who look similar to blacks develop Relationships with Blacks, sometimes they will consider themselves to be Black also.

These articles, deal the realities of Black and White in US verses the Latin world.The first Article is especially Poignant.

Best of Friends, Worlds Apart

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...jito-cuba.html

This one is about how the police see "Blacks" and "Dominicans" in NYC.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...nerip-cops.htm

Believe me, I understand very well the American position in this. Check out some of my post I have made through the years about this, you will see I am no stranger to the American or Dominican way of looking at this issue.

However, and this is the point I am constantly making, how the Americans see something is not necessarily the way others will see it.

Why?

Because the way Americans see something is reflective of their history and experiences.

The way a Dominican see something is reflective of his history and experiences.

The two cannot be mixed and an American should not try to make the Dominican see the world his way or vice versa, because each view point is totally irrelevant in each nation.

The US went through segregation after slavery, which caused much resentment in the afro-american community. On top of that, white Americans thought of africans as low life, no good for nothing, for that reason white Americans did all they could to exclude anyone with even the slightest drop of African blood in them. For this reason, Mariah Carey is black in the US, as oppose to mulatta in the rest of the world, including DR.

Thus, what American police think of Dominicans is irrelevant, except for those Dominicans living in the US. For those who don't live there, what Americans think of race is irrelevant, because the one drop rule is only practiced in the United States and no where else in the world. In the rest of the world, a mulatto is a mulatto. Read the first link below.

Here, read this link, it should be interesting, please read the first link in its entirety and the others at will:

Who is Black? One Nation's Definition
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...d/onedrop.html

Passing for white, Passing for black
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ngs/piper.html

Race - The Power of an Illusion
http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

[Ricardo900]

Originally Posted by Lovelylocs

In your opinions, when does a black dominican American become an African American?

I believe when a black dominican is born in the US and receives an american education, he/she can consider themselves african-americans if they want, due to fact that they won't have that language barrier to give them away, but their names will give them away. Black americans will accept them as one of their own with no problems. Their are dominican actors who are passing as black americans for acting roles that are casting for Black acting parts.

Now, white dominicans who are born in the US definitely can physically pass for a white american, but last names and the questions that white americans will definitely ask, i.e. Where are you from? Who are your parents? will give them away and place them in the other categories. In order for a white dominican too become/pass as a white american, he/she would need to have been born here, receive an american education, learn how to suppress their dominican traits that will give them away in their new social circles and finally change their first and last names and lie about their heritage. It seems extreme but if a second generation dominican lies on his job application and checks off white as his race, he/she will eventually get caught unless they take drastic measures, due to the "one-drop-rule" and this rule implies to latinos as well. Their co-workers, neighbors and new friends will ask them questions and even more questions if they have doubt.

The only exception is that an Argentinians is looked upon differently.

When it comes down to it, dominicans are dominicans no matter how you shake a stick at it. They don't need to start eating collard greens or Lox on thinly sliced black bread, yumm. They are who they are!

[Pana]

I consider my self a perfect example of this thread except Im not Dominican Im an American of Panamanian decent. I have a spanish last name and I dont look like the typical Latino but look more like an American Black. What I have learned traveling down to RD is that Dominicans are who they are and they come in all different types of colors and in my point of view that is one of the most special things I love about this island is the mixture of the people in it and also the Spanish, African, and little bit of Taino culture makes them Dominicans.