Poverty, Culture, and Conspicuous Consumption

[dv8]

well, i guess you could "show" your riches by giving them away. that would be bad only for YOU...
LOL

[NALs]

Originally Posted by dv8

well, i guess you could "show" your riches by giving them away. that would be bad only for YOU...
LOL

Chances are that every wealthy person became such or has maintained such status by creating, maintaining, and expanding job opportunities for the masses.

Isn't that a way of sharing the wealth??? Plus, by offering new job opportunities you are not just giving them a fish, but rather teaching them how to fish.... so they can feed themselves forever rather than eat for a day!

Take Macocael's story of the lady who has gone up the latter via her salon business. Well, for all her vanity she is giving her employees a job, a source of income, and perhaps even a source of pride in themselves. She is giving them the chance to be productive which is a desire most people have in life.

Sure, she would probably be a better person if her vanity would diminish or dissappear all together. But, isn't the fact that she is doing her part in helping society by offering things society wants (jobs and a good hairstylist) enough?

Just wondering.

-NALs

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by NALs

Chances are that every wealthy person became such or has maintained such status by creating, maintaining, and expanding job opportunities for the masses.

Isn't that a way of sharing the wealth??? Plus, by offering new job opportunities you are not just giving them a fish, but rather teaching them how to fish.... so they can feed themselves forever rather than eat for a day!

Take Macocael's story of the lady who has gone up the latter via her salon business. Well, for all her vanity she is giving her employees a job, a source of income, and perhaps even a source of pride in themselves. She is giving them the chance to be productive which is a desire most people have in life.

Sure, she would probably be a better person if her vanity would diminish or dissappear all together. But, isn't the fact that she is doing her part in helping society by offering things society wants (jobs and a good hairstylist) enough?

Just wondering.

-NALs

Of course, you are correct.

Effort, risk and ingenuity creates true wealth (except for those who inherited it). Wealth, invested, creates more wealth for others. Heck, even if a rich guy put his money in a bank, it STILL creates wealth elsewhere.

I never heard of a "poor" guy creating a job.

However, I DO understand the class envy of some who resent others effort, risk and ingenuity (i.e. "wealth"), and take great pleasure in seeing a "wealthy" person destroyed (or at least knocked down a few pegs).

[Chirimoya]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

So wealth, itself, isn't bad. Just showing it is.

Yes, I think there is a lot of merit in being discreet and restrained, especially when surrounded by such extreme poverty. There are also some practical reasons. But that's just MHO.

OK, so we bashed the nouveau riche, admittedly an easy target. The main point of the OP though, was about government priorities, and how a poor country can justify squandering millions on fripperies when there are less costly alternatives, and other priorities the money could be spent on. I would add the examples of some DR embassies and their staff. I can't see how anyone could defend that, apart from the argument that the party needs to reward its faithful.

Originally Posted by NALs

You cannot become poor enough to make another poor person feel better about themselves!

Apart from commending you on your uncharacteristic brevity let me say that I agree absolutely. To a huge percentage of people in this country, a lowly Skoda is as unattainable as a US$100k in-your-face luxury SUV. But if the government has to supply an official with a car, the lowly skoda, or even a modest SUV will do the job just as well.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Yes, I think there is a lot of merit in being discreet and restrained, especially when surrounded by such extreme poverty. There are also some practical reasons. But that's just MHO.

OK, so we bashed the nouveau riche, admittedly an easy target.

So now it's not showing wealth that is bad, it's ~when~ it was acquired.

I'm not big on showing wealth, but I'm not gonna make a big deal about those that choose to do so. It's their money and life.

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

But if the government has to supply an official with a car, the lowly skoda, or even a modest SUV will do the job just as well.

I agree completely; I want the policy implemented just as soon as my tenure of Official Cerveza Potentate of the Republica Dominicana is officially over, and I begin to draw my RD$50,000 lifetime pension.

I recall the time when the US issued plain gray Studebaker Larks with "Property of the U.S. Government" stenciled on the doors to those that required transportation for their official duties.. Government employees didn't want to drive them. Imagine a fleet of beige Yarises or Skoda's.

[Chirimoya]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

So now it's not showing wealth that is bad, it's ~when~ it was acquired.

Nope, it's a question of priorities. I could have many of the things you think I'm jealous of if I shuffled some priorities, but I've never considered them in the least important or attractive.

I'm not big on showing wealth, but I'm not gonna make a big deal about those that choose to do so. It's their money and life.

Your opinion, of course. I'm also entitled to say I think it's tacky, vulgar and tactless, more so when surrounded by poverty.

I recall the time when the US issued plain gray Studebaker Larks with "Property of the U.S. Government" stenciled on the doors to those that required transportation for their official duties.. Government employees didn't want to drive them. Imagine a fleet of beige Yarises or Skoda's.

As long as they have four wheels and a working engine who cares?

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Nope, it's a question of priorities. I could have many of the things you think I'm jealous of if I shuffled some priorities, but I've never considered them in the least important or attractive.

Coulda woulda shoulda, "IF". Results matter more than good intentions. Most folks who CAN become wealthy-in any way you care to define "wealthy"-usually do, without making excuses for the fruit of their labor.

Are you saying YOUR priorities are somehow morally superior to someone who may have different priorities? I hope not. I know many wealthy people whose generosity and compassion are unsurpassed.

I personally don't give a sankies peso for how someone else chooses to live their life, and show their wealth...or lack thereof.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

As long as they have four wheels and a working engine who cares?

Agreed. I would include brakes, good tires and lights to the list of "bare necessities".

[Chirimoya]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

Coulda woulda shoulda, "IF". Results matter more than good intentions. Most folks who CAN become wealthy-in any way you care to define "wealthy"-usually do, without making excuses for the fruit of their labor. Are you saying YOUR priorities are somehow morally superior to someone who may have different priorities?

My choices, like most peoples, are based on my personal ethics, and as a result my priorities are different to many people's. Morally superior? It's relative. I know some people who might define me as pampered and bourgeois, while you probably think I'm being judgemental and austere.

I know many wealthy people whose generosity and compassion are unsurpassed.

So do I. It is usually combined with discretion and restraint. I have the utmost respect for them. Some of the most generous donors (I'm talking of six-figure sums in pounds sterling every year) to an organisation I'm familiar with did not want any publicity whatsoever, and if you met them in person you would never guess they were extremely wealthy.

Back to government officials - if they object to low-key cars, it kind of begs the question what motivated them to seek office, doesn't it? Either they're there to serve their country, or to enrich themselves. In the DR, apart from a few noble exceptions, the latter is so blatantly the case and people just accept it as par for the course. Martínez is saying that is this one of the roots of the country's problems, and is part of a shallow, materialist culture - the veneer of progress without the substance (education and culture).

The issue of motivation reminds me (again) of the charity sector and donor accountability: charity organisations can't offer high salaries and luxurious perks to their employees, but they still need to attract highly competent professionals. Despite that they manage to find enough people who are so committed to the charitable cause that they don't mind working for less money than they would be earning in an equivalent job in the commercial sector.

[A.Hidalgo]

If a rich man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it.

Socrates (470?-399BC)