When was the REAL (Dominican) Declaration of Independence made?

[bilijou]

I don't think it is a matter of opinion. The question of whether it was an occupation can be answered quite objectively with the phrase in the Haitian constitution, la isla es "una e indivisible".

IMO, asopao is historically accurate. I would add that many Dominicans don't tend to see it from the Haitian point of view. Taking over the eastern side of the island was really a strategic move which assured their existance. The Haitian revolution was all about abolishing slavery. As a nation made up by former slaves, having a slaveholding eastern side was a huge threat to Haiti. Afterall many of the whites in the island either fled to or already lived on the eastern side.
The massive pool of former slaves would have kept the superpowers wanting to reestablish Haiti as the richest colony in the Americas.

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by bilijou

I don't think it is a matter of opinion. The question of whether it was an occupation can be answered quite objectively with the phrase in the Haitian constitution, la isla es "una e indivisible".

IMO, asopao is historically accurate. I would add that many Dominicans don't tend to see it from the Haitian point of view. Taking over the eastern side of the island was really a strategic move which assured their existance. The Haitian revolution was all about abolishing slavery. As a nation made up by former slaves, having a slaveholding eastern side was a huge threat to Haiti. Afterall many of the whites in the island either fled to or already lived on the eastern side.
The massive pool of former slaves would have kept the superpowers wanting to reestablish Haiti as the richest colony in the Americas.

The reason for the Haitian occupation that bilijou talks about is one that is not taught in Dominican history books, but one that is more historically correct. Haiti being the first black independent republic was horrified at the possibility of slavery returning to that part of Hispaniola.

[Chip00]

Originally Posted by asopao

contrary to popular belief, the majority of Easterners in 1821 were in favor of uniting with Haiti, because racist, azqueroso José Nuñez de Caceres didn't want to abolish slavery,and kept racial discrimination in place for the free people of color.

Do you have references? The sources I've read say that the Haitian gov't had support from some of the population but doesn't say that it had majority support.

Originally Posted by asopao

Now that we know that 1822 wasn't an occupation, but an annexation

I think a could be made if there was majority support, but all of the sources I've seen on the web say no such thing. However, if we assume that it wasn't an annexation that still doesn't have to mean that the action of becoming somewhat sovereign after ousting the Spanish means that it was the true "independence".

I base this opinion on the fact that it appears that the eastern part of Quisqueya was anything but homogenous in it's makeup and outlook for the future. According to what I have read there were three groups of thought and all had different goals. It appears they didn't even share a common identity other than they spoke Spanish:

la formación de tres bandos políticos definidos: el primero estaba formado por negros y mulatos esclavos, ex-esclavos y pequeños campesinos de la zona Norte que propugnaban por la integración del país a Haití; el segundo, liderado por Núñez de Cáceres, era el bando más activo y estaba integrado por burócratas inconformes, miembros de la oligarquía colonial, comerciantes importadores y exportadores insatisfechos que se inclinaban por el rompimiento de los vínculos coloniales, mediante una independencia que aspiraba al mantenimiento de la esclavitud bajo el protectorado de la Gran Colombia; y un tercer bando, integrado por los funcionarios coloniales y miembros de la clase alta, que aspiraba al mantenimiento de la situación colonial.

In my opinion I think a case can be made that because there was no real "Dominican Identity" yet that therefore no real independence was had from Spain. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of the reason that the separation from Spain in 1821 has been given less historical significance that the one in 1844.

[asopao]

Originally Posted by Chip00

Do you have references? The sources I've read say that the Haitian gov't had support from some of the population but doesn't say that it had majority support.

Read Torres-Saillant's essay " callaloo", do a google search. Ofcourse, you are not going to find that on " internet sources". That was a point of contention between Haitian historian Jean-Price Mars and Joaquin Balaguer. Balaguer has even said that " There was no discriminaition basen on color on the Eastern side, the only prejudice was a religious one". So, you go figure the sources from characters like him

That is a no-brainer. People of color admired Haiti, its constitution, they got dissapointed by Caceres, he wasn't representing them. Another evidence was that Boyer didn't have resistance.

[NALs]

Chip00, do your own independent research away from research documents already created.

Don't put too much weight on anything a Dominican or Haitian researcher claims on any given essay, because a Dominican will be biased towards the DR and a Haitian will be biased to Haiti. Neither of the two will agree to the attrocities, injustices, etc the other claims.

Also, be weary of research done by some foreigners; many have been influenced depending with what type of the two people they have been sorrounding themselves prior and during their research, thus their work can be considered a little suspect.

Read them for the sake of getting an outline of how things possibly were, but don't take them on a word for word basis.

However, there are legitimate documents of first hand account written by various people (some Dominican, others Haitians, and others foreigners) in many points in the history of the DR and Haiti.

Read those with much interest, especially those written by foreigners who had no preference for either one side or the other.

You can find such documents in places such as jstor.org, which is a not for profit organization that collects journals on all subjects anyone could think of from history, science, economics, etc and many first hand account reports.

Jstor is one of the few reputable journal collections available online, most however are institutions with no internet presence.

You will be surprised by what you will discover, that's for sure.

-NALs