The "Dominican" experience

Chip00 · #1 03-11-2007, 11:29 PM

This thread is intended to discuss, calmy and objectively people's experience with Domincans as a whole with respect to generally regarded "class". I saw NAL's recent poll and decidd to not really get involved because I believed it wasn't going to last long. However, it brings up a couple issues about an apparently "pointed" subject.

With respect to my friend's AZB somewhat heavy handed opinion as regards to "class", I would like to state that I met one of his close friends yesterday(according to him) and this guy was as "classy" as they come in true AZB "form". This guy appeared to have it all, a new jipeta del ano, a career as a prominent neurosurgeon, a beautiful wife and lovely daughter, trilingual and obviously very wealthy and a very pleasant manner - again those are by AZB's definitions.

However, what impressed me the most about this guy wasn't all these apparent credentials. When I asked him if he was a member of Las Aromas Golf Club and he replied "no" but "I'd sure like to learn golf". I said "great" and besides, there are a lot of "important and wealthy" people there and one can make maybe good business/personal contacts. Whereupon this guy responds, "I'm not interested in hanging out with important and wealthy people as I already have enough money to retire, no I'm interested in good company".

It appears at least for this one example that me and AZB are in agreement.

So that brings me to the question as to the "Dominican experiance" because mine and AZB's seem to be at the polar extremes, excluding the above example.

My own personal experiance has been that "classiness" isn't associated with money, power or education. To me "classiness" has to do with not being conceited, being generous and considerate of others and I would like to say that many poor Domincans(although not all of course) I have met have these traits. I think I have had enough experience with the "educated" upper class, albeit back in the states to make a fair assessment when I say in my opinion that being "educated and wealthy" and "classy" aren't mutually exclusive neither here in the DR or anywhere for that matter.

Of course this is my opinion and I would like to know what other's opinions are based on their Dominican experiance and why without being offensive to anyone or group of people in general.

Thanks

2LeftFeet · #2 03-12-2007, 12:29 AM

I know everyone's definition of class is different. For me it is how you treat people, how you treat yourself and your surroundings. It's being humble.

I agree there are more people with money that have NO class than people that don't have money. People that have NEW money many times are the worst offenders but old money can hold their own.

I travel a lot and was on a trip in Nepal. A family that was on our trip was a prominent family from the DR. This family has more money than this whole board put together. It's astounding. They were very down to earth. Very nice. Didn't brag about their money. I would have never known. It came up one day in passing conversation what companies their families owned --- then I knew.

Anyway. They were classy.---UNTIL a mishap along the way---her doing. The wife berrated the staff at the hotel and humiliated them like I have never seen. I was shocked and so embarassed.She created a scene. She wanted something done immediately and it couldn't be done. It was impossible. I lost respect for her.

You get to see who someone really is by how they treat people who are "considered less" then they are. How does one treat the housekeeper? A homeless person? Mentally ill person? A retarded person? It speaks volumes.

Robert · #3 03-12-2007, 09:04 AM

Interesting thread. The second it goes of topic or gets personal, it's deleted.

Kyle · #4 03-12-2007, 10:07 AM

as an american traveling to the DR on a regular basis, i never really "classify" anyone although someone may have a perception of me being an american. respect is global and from what i see, that's all most dominicans want and I the same. a presidente and a couple of stories to tell, i can party with anyone...

Alyonka · #5 03-12-2007, 10:12 AM

I think that "class" is something that is naturally inside of a person, it is kind of either there or not. It is how they treat themselves and everything that surronds them. I have worked with people of different backgrounds, carreers and levels of income, watched their behavior with their families and at work. The moment I hear a wealthy person brag about their wealth or put someone down - that person falls in my eyes completely because I have met people with real class and saw them treat their servants and employees with dignity and respect and never heard any of them mention or compare someone else's income, car or house to theirs. In terms of DR - I sort of understand what AZB is talking about - all I can say that educated people are more pleasant and interesting to be with then those from the street. That is all.

MommC · #6 03-12-2007, 10:45 AM

I have been fortunate enough to have met many people of many different social/economic backgrounds from many countries including presidents,prime ministers, entertainment 'biggies', etc. right down to hookers and sankies.
Money does NOT equate class....... even the lowly hooker and sankie who ply thier trades to support their families some time have more 'class' than the wealthiest of individuals.
I must agree with Avora and also mention that some of the 'uneducated' persons I have met have more 'real' education via life experience and watching things like the Discovery Channel,the History channel, nova etc. than some highly educated people I have met.

NALs · #7 03-12-2007, 11:50 AM

I know I'm an irresistable bait for the wolf pack on DR1, so please control yourself folks, this is just my opinion and not a law written in stone.

I think that people, in general, confuse class with good manners. To me, class has nothing to do with good manners and everything to do with your profession, education level, how you spend your leasure time, what you value the most, etc.

Having said that, the material things that you own do not define you and anyone who believes that is inevitably egoistic and materialistic. You define the things around you, not vice-versa. If you know who and what you are, you will inevitably be a much better caring person and you will treat others with respect and dignity.

Regarding good manners, they are simply that, good manners. It has absolutely nothing to do with the socio-economic class a person belongs to. This is why I don't equate the notion of "class" with "good manners". A person can have good manners and be of a lower socio-economic class and the vice-versa is also true. But, by no means should good manners and class be thought of as being the same, because I think they are different.

True class does leads to being well mannered, but being well mannered doesn't leads to higher socio-economic standing.

The other point I want to make is that whenever a discussion of class is being done, people should keep in mind that it's an emotion charged discussion. For that reason such discussions do tend to go on the personal attack side after a while.

For some reason some people don't want to recognize the obvious, societies function best with class differentiation and to deny such is to be indenial. Also, being class-conscious doesn't make a person any less classy or more classy than he already is. Some of the people you may think is less classy could be the biggest philanthropic person you probably never realized you knew.

Good deeds are best when they are done in quiet and away from the public eye or knowledge. Sometimes the person you may have thought of as the least classiest of all may actually be the one with the biggest heart, but a heart that he doesn't boasts about.

"Doing good things for recognition is acceptable, doing good things for the sake of doing good things is admirable. It's always better to be part of the latter."

That's my take on all of this.

-NALs

Alyonka · #8 03-12-2007, 12:09 PM

Definitions from Webster's dictionary related to this discussion:

Class:

1: a group sharing the same economic or social status b: social rank; especially : high social rank c: high quality : elegance
2: a division or rating based on grade or quality
3: the best of its kind

planner · #9 03-12-2007, 12:28 PM

But these are two different discussions folks. Being of a defined class based on specific criteria is one thing. Having "class" is totally different.

Chip said:

"when I say in my opinion that being "educated and wealthy" and "classy" aren't mutually exclusive neither here in the DR or anywhere for that matter. "

The first is the "socio economic class system" that NALS has the poll on.

The second is the discussion of "having class" which this thread started by Chip is about.

In my opinion, there are many many "classy" people here. It is not limited to what they do or do not have it is all about how they behave.

I have seen people behave with amazing class and I have seen people behave in such incredibly embarassing and nasty ways! While working in a hotel I was amazed at the behaviours of some very very high net worth individuals - from this country, Americans, Canadians, English etc. It was not restricted by sex, colour or age either.

I have seen very bad behaviour by poor people as well!

What is interesting is the expectations. I find myself, and this is echoed by others, thinking the wealthy and educated should know better, while sometimes excusing the behaviour of the uneducated or less educated.

Class or "good character" isn't something you buy or rent or borrow. You either have it or you don't. Money will not change that. Education will not change that.

Behaviour can be learned, absorbed and made part of your life. Good manners and good behaviour I think are reflective of Class but are not Class.

2LeftFeet · #10 03-12-2007, 12:45 PM

I think we just expect that if people have money they also have class--myself included and that's why I was so shocked and embarssed by the woman's behavior--post#2.

I think class does encompass manners-- classy people don't spit, aren't vulgar, aren't rude, they treat people with respect. They treat themselves with respect. They put themselves together nicely even if they don'thave money. They are respectable. If someone makes a mistake they don't humilate them or chastise them. They don't put people in THEIR place when given the opportunity. They are humble people.

They aren't showy or ostentatious or pretentious. They are gracious. They appreciate what they have. They don't make people feel less then they are. They'll show a whore and the president the same respect because they both deserve it because they are people.

That's what I think.