DR Constitution and citizenship

[A.Hidalgo]

I think that in the coming days as the reform to the constitution heats up the topic of Dominican citizenship will be one hell of a hot topic. The citizen group Citizen Forum has proposed that the Dominican constitution should remain with the principle of birthplace, jus soli because they feel it is less discriminatory than the bloodline criteria, jus sanguinis. What do you think?



http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=23211

[aegap]

A Dirty Secret
The political constituency for those wanting jus soli is fairly marginal. They ain't goin get no better than the Constition as currently wrtitten. ..

[2LeftFeet]

I'm having a night tonight-- nothing is computing-- Does the constitution now saw that nationality is from jus soli or jus sanguinis?

[aegap]

jus soli, unless you're born to diplomats or the Supreme court determines you're parents were 'in transit' when they had you. The Supreme Court has pretty much determined anyone who hasn't legally normalized a permanent can be considered 'in transit'.

[2LeftFeet]

So, Miss Puerta Plata should have nationality-- if I read the other thread correctly. Mother Dominican/Dad Greek. She was born there??? -- I'm assuming?

[Hillbilly]

If you are in the DR legally, (except, as noted, as a diplomat), your children will be considered Dominican if they are born here.
The big problem is with the 500,000 illegal Haitian immigrants and the 10,000s of women who come to DR hospitals to have babies each year. Dominicans, a vast majority, do not want these people to procreate new DR citizens.....
Yes, it is racism, yes it is discrimination, but it is their country....

This is happening around the globe. In Venezuela vis á vis Colombians; in Honduras with Salvadorans, in the US with Mexicans, In Puerto Rico with Dominicans....fact of life in the XXI century.

HB

[2LeftFeet]

In the US if you are born here-- you are an American! You don't have to be legally here.

So, in the DR the sticking point is LEGALLY in the DR!?? If you are not legally in the DR -- you do not have citizenship or nationality?

[Rick Snyder]

The Dominican constitution, like all constitutions from all countries, states what is required to be recognized as a citizen. At this point we are talking about jus soli. Article 11 paragraph 1 says that you are Dominican if you are born here except --- If you are the child of a foreign diplomat or you are a child of a person that is here in an “in-transit” status. This therefore brings up what the meaning or definition of “in-transit” is. Common sense would seem to dictate that a person here illegally would be considered “in-transit”. Due to the meaning of the word ‘visa’ if would be equally correct to interpret a work, student and visitor visa as an “in-transit” status also. An application for citizenship or residency would seem to dictate a status other than “in-transit” and per Article 11, paragraph 4 the laws concerning naturalized citizenship takes place.

The only reference to jus sanguinis in the Dominican constitution is in Article 11, paragraph 3 in which it states that any child born in a foreign country of either a Dominican man or woman will be Dominican unless it isn’t in compliance with the laws of that country in which the child is born and if said laws do not allow the child a duel citizenship the child will have the option on their 18th birthday to apply for and receive their Dominican citizenship. There is also a reference in sub-paragraph III in which a foreign woman upon marriage with a Dominican man can claim Dominican citizenship unless their foreign laws don’t allow such in which case the woman can refuse Dominican citizenship on the marriage certificate.

It would seem that the DR does not want to apply a jus soli to children born here on equal footing with jus soli as it applies in the US. This is their country and their prerogative and just looking at the situations in all aspects of living here it would seem that this is a good idea for the DR. As mentioned above by HB and in many other threads concerning this subject jus soli is not a sticking point for only the DR but is in fact a sticking point for many other countries around the world in all continents. This is becoming more apparent as more people are immigrating to other countries in an effort to better their lot in life.

Rick

[asopao]

The only reference to jus sanguinis in the Dominican constitution is in Article 11, paragraph 3 in which it states that any child born in a foreign country of either a Dominican man or woman will be Dominican unless it isn’t in compliance with the laws of that country in which the child is born and if said laws do not allow the child a duel citizenship the child will have the option on their 18th birthday to apply for and receive their Dominican citizenship. There is also a reference in sub-paragraph III in which a foreign woman upon marriage with a Dominican man can claim Dominican citizenship unless their foreign laws don’t allow such in which case the woman can refuse Dominican citizenship on the marriage certificate.

I've seen this, it is a sexist paragraph, it is archaic and don't look good. This is the 21st century now. those politicos should replace " foreign woman" with " foreign spouse"(man or woman).

It would seem that the DR does not want to apply a jus soli to children born here on equal footing with jus soli as it applies in the US. This is their country and their prerogative and just looking at the situations in all aspects of living here it would seem that this is a good idea for the DR. As mentioned above by HB and in many other threads concerning this subject jus soli is not a sticking point for only the DR but is in fact a sticking point for many other countries around the world in all continents. This is becoming more apparent as more people are immigrating to other countries in an effort to better their lot in life.

I have said it a million times here. DR must get rid of Jus Soli! fast!
Right now, it is the only country in the world that shares an island that still has it. Other divided islands like:

Cyprus/Northern Cyprus(occupied by Turkey).
Borneo/Kalimatan
Irian Jaya/Papua New Guinea
West Timor/East Timor

don't. It is a no-brainer to know as to why they don't have Jus Soli.

Just imagine the East Timor example, if any of you know the history of that recently independent nation.

Why in the hell DR still has Jus Soli then? By just placing Jus Sanguinis, the NGO's won't have an excuse anymore to force DR to absorve Haiti demographically. They can't say then it is " racism, discrimination," and all that nonsense.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Asopao

I have said it a million times here. DR must get rid of Jus Soli! fast!
Right now, it is the only country in the world that shares an island that still has it. Other divided islands like:

Cyprus/Northern Cyprus(occupied by Turkey).
Borneo/Kalimatan
Irian Jaya/Papua New Guinea
West Timor/East Timor

don't. It is a no-brainer to know as to why they don't have Jus Soli.

Just imagine the East Timor example, if any of you know the history of that recently independent nation.

Why in the hell DR still has Jus Soli then? By just placing Jus Sanguinis, the NGO's won't have an excuse anymore to force DR to absorve Haiti demographically. They can't say then it is " racism, discrimination," and all that nonsense.

On this point I agree, although what you say in the last sentence "[NGOs] can't say then it is 'racism, discrimination,' and all that nonsense."

Well, I think they can and they will use the 'racism, discrimination nonsense', with the exception that they will make a case for why the DR replaced Jus Soli with Jus Sanguinis.

Such move from the part of the Dominican government is perhaps what some people might want to further increase the DR is racist bandwagon, which works very well with those people who don't understand the way of the Dominican man and that includes pretty much 99% of humanity, perhaps even higher.

But, I think we should go the jus sanguinis route and ignore the critics.

As for how fast? I think it should be done on a low key basis, in other words break the process of changing the constitution jus soli to jus sanguinis by injecting several modifications via other legislation change packages as they go through congress and the senate. Then at the end of it all, boom the full change will occur.

That should keep the bandwagon at bay, at least for a while.

(BTW, governments do this all the time, they inject totally unrelated modifications to totally unrelated laws, rights, etc within several bills. This is as much true in the DR government as it is in the US government).

-NALs