The worst way to spend US$30 million!

[jrf]

Originally Posted by coho

Why don't you do some research before you spout off your BS reterect.

Was that directed at me coho? and if so why?

[Rick Snyder]

I keep waiting for the conspiracy theorists to jump on the “why was Hartley reassigned?” band wagon in an effort to broaden the tension.

Human nature being as it is never ceases to amaze me. Looking at this article as an example. Though in an effort to paint a very black picture of the Dominican government and the sugar industry the author does mention some facts like, “the situation is better than what many Haitians face back home”, “Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere”, Haiti’s GNP “is less than one-quarter that of the Dominican Republic”, “Unemployment stands at roughly 75 percent”, “Political instability in Haiti and increasing violence in the capital over the last few years have pushed more Haitians into the Dominican Republic” and “An estimated 800,000 to 1 million Haitians live here today, most of them illegally”. After reading these facts I, as a self proclaimed ‘thinker’, sit back and say, ‘do you see anything wrong with this picture?’. It is this failure to look at the whole picture to differentiate between the black and white and to question the why fore and direct attention to solving the real problem that ceases to amaze me.

I was afforded the availability to watch a 47 minute movie clip that does a very good job of explaining the reasoning for this ‘selective thinking (my title)’ being carried out throughout the world today. If you have the time I would suggest you watch it as it can be seen here.

Rick

[Chip00]

Does anybody think it would be worth it to try to stay on top of the process of the "analysis" of the Haitian situation here, ie. find out when they are coming and make available to them video tape copies of Dominicans living in similar situations?

I would have no problem doing that myself as I have a video camara and know a few areas in Santiago and Moca that would surely be an "eye opener" to these critics.

[Exxtol]

Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo

I don't think there is neglect. Countries ranging from the US, the European Community and Canada have been giving aid to Haiti in the millions. Is all this aid helping...only time will tell. I do agree with aegap that aid that empowers Haiti is the ideal way.


USAID/Haiti: Strategic Plan

EUROPA - Development - Countries - Haiti

Canada boosts aid. | Business solutions from AllBusiness.com

If one is to look at historical record and the intl' community (including the most apparent and primordial obstructions to economic independence--the restitution that was demanded of Haiti from France) regarding Haiti, then yes the country has consistently been manipulated and mishandled, and at various times dictators and coups being supported and proported by the US, Europe, and Canada.

In any event I digress. My original point being, rather than the intl' community focusing on Haitians in the DR (tunnel vision that seems to cloud rationale and common sense) the focus must be shifted to Haiti itself.

And on that note I leave you w/this quote that many may or may not agree with:

"Imperialism today is conducted behind the illusion of humanitarianism, and that’s why NGOs are important and why imperialists have infiltrated them."

--Exxtol

[JOKL]

Originally Posted by jrf

If the Haitians had it together they would be a force to reckon with. I am amazed at how resourceful and resilient they are. The Haitianos I know in the RD and the few times I have been in Haiti I have always been impressed.

So much aid is getting to the country of Haiti but it seems that it is like throwing mud at a wall. Some of it will stick and how much of it is lining the pockets of those in charge.
Surely the amount of 'loss' must be assumed at high with not only the foods but the funds sent to Haiti.

The RD is a great place to try to ease the issues of the Haitians. 30 million is nothing compared to what is sent to Haiti and since the RD already has the infrastructure to handle so many issues - as crazy as some things are there in the RD.

Assistance to the Haitianos within the country to help them get on their feet would be a huge help.
And the Dominicanos are highly racist - so no say what will happen with this news and extra attention.

well, DR and Haiti are the balkan of Americas, trying to put them together won't work .Beside dominican have a sense of belonging to a broader community "the latin americans", DR is more in tune with venezuela, cuba mexico, central america, etc than with Haiti. Haiti is an isolate place in the Americas world. If dominican where a racist place, they should let the White Spain of taking over in 1865, or let US taking Samana when Baez was president, or let US take the island in 1924, and 1965...Dominican just want to be Dominican.

[Chip00]

Originally Posted by Exxtol

"Imperialism today is conducted behind the illusion of humanitarianism, and that’s why NGOs are important and why imperialists have infiltrated them."
--Exxtol

This statement is somewhat self conflicting as it first denounces imperialism and then says the NGO's are important as if it were a good way to balance agianst imperialism and then goes on to say that these NGO's are infiltrated by imperialists.

What would be your definition as to imperialism in todays day and age in Haiti?

Also, what would be a solution to helping out a country who has almost no natural resources and a propensity for political instability? BTW, aren't they really connected? Unhappy, unemployed people vote for politicians who promise them miracles and end up robbing them blind?

My solution is to rebuild the country starting with the economy first - of course a relatively stable government will be needed in order to implement such rebuilding. If we keep leaving them to find their own solution there will be just civil war with obvious serious consequences for the DR.

[Exxtol]

Originally Posted by Chip00

What would be your definition as to imperialism in todays day and age in Haiti?

Again, the above quote was not mine, it was mere food for thought, and was not specifically directed to Haiti, but to all 2nd and 3rd world countries including the DR.

[A.Hidalgo]

Since a 47 minute video was brought up into this discussion that was made by the Heritage Foundation, I would like to point out that the philosophy they espouse is the same one that has been in power in the US for the last 6 plus years.....we know where that has gotten us. Every day its imploding with scandal after scandal unfortunately not fast enough.

Approximately 667 days to go till January 20, 2009!!!

[Rick Snyder]

Chip in answer to your question in post #13 which nobody seemed to want to address. The purpose of ‘staying on top of the analysis’ would revolve around that which you would do with such information and what purpose you think it would serve. If the purpose is to have an accurate record of that which is and has transpired for the purpose of one day showing it to your grandchildren then I would say go for it. If the purpose is to have the record to show anyone that may impart some interest in such matters then I would once again say go for it. But, if by any chance you think that you will or can change the minds of those that use an indiscriminate thought process in dealing with that which is presented as an irrefutable truth to a situation then you are wasting your time.

This should be very apparent by those that continue to argue this case without taking in to account such catch phrases as ‘illegal alien’, ‘in-transit’, Haitian jus soli and jus sanguinis’, ‘supreme court ruling’, ‘live here better than there’ and a host of others. It is this failure to be rational and instead they are emotional or prejudicial in that which they convey.

The ‘International campaign’ as presented by the OP is, in reality, no different then the ‘analysis’ you propose except that they have 38 million dollars at their disposal along with many big names behind them. Their ‘cast of characters’ for their production also include some big time organizations to include the Catholic church. A very tough act to follow!How much money do you have for your ‘analysis’? (Don’t answer that, that’s a joke).

The only person that seems to ‘get it’ is Exxtol which is very apparent by his post at #14. All these people and organizations involved in this ‘international campaign’ seem to have an akrasia when it comes to distributing the blame where it truly lies and therefore pooling their resources and money to correct the problems in that sphere. They would much rather try to shift the blame to another party thereby allowing them to sit back and say ’see what we did’ when the reality of the situation is they haven’t corrected the problem much less addressed it. Kind of like an open rejection of ‘fact, evidence, reason, logic, truth, morality and decency’. Now where have I recently heard that????

Rick

[Joshua R]

This whole campaign is a load of crap! The French were the first to enslave the hatians and left the country after they were defeated and now they want to say that we enslave them and are a reason for their poverty?! HA! what hypocrisy! Like NALs said, spend that 30 mil on something more important than bitching about how we "enslave the hatians" with barely sufficiant evidance. The Dominican people will not lower themselves to the standards that the Americans, French, British, Romans, Myans, and Aztecs did when they implimented slavery into their ****ing economy.....Dammit that just got me mad