Tainos in the DR?

[Baracutay]

Originally Posted by Chip

On the contrary, I think few countries have reached the level of homogenization that the DR has. Nonetheless, it is still helpful and informative to know the contributors to the diversity found here, thus the purpose of this thread - to shed light Taino component to the Dominican melting pot.

I think Chip is right. Even though Dominicans are multi-cultural and multi-ethinic as a whole, we have become rather homogenous in that it is really hard sometimes to distinguish which many cultural forms come from.
As for the foreigners that Superconejo mentioned, what happened according to the researchers is that many new-comers to the island were asked to submit samples simply because they happned to be there. Haitians were not disqualified from participating because they live there too. But many that passed for Dominicans only revealed that they were originally from Haiti or elsewhere after they were questions about their origins.
What was interesting for me personally is that in my region, Jaibon/Laguna Salada 7 of ten samples were African.But when these people were asked if they were native to the town they all replied no, they had come from other parts of the island in recent times. However one that did test positive for Indian, assured the reserahcers that all of his family orginally came from Santiago Rodriguez where coincidently there seems to be a lot of Native DNA.

I hope that once this is officially out, I would really enjoy more dialogue on Native cultural forms, language and not just DNA. As intrigued as I am by DNA I find that it says nothing about culture. How Many Afro-Dominicans practice Taino culture? How many Indo-DOminicans practive Afro culture etc etc. This is more interesting to me. As a man that has always indetified with Taino, I can assure you that my identity did not start in a test tube!

DNA is a fascinating tool, one that can she light on statements that appear to be set in stone such as "The Taino are EXTINCT". But it really does not say anything on culture. I do think that when Tackling the Taino question, a holistic approach that includes DNA is one that is hard to argue against.
All the best
Jorge

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Baracutay

1. which specific African haplogroup is this?

(1) I do not have the specific halpogroup on hand. I promise to post it soon. Off-hand I believe it is L2 with a specific halpotype. I am very intrigued by this finding because it is quite possible that an entire group of people were brought over from Africa and later difused all over the island. It would be very interesting indeed to compare certain Afro-Dominican cultural forms with the peoples that this Halpogroup corresponds to.

Just a side note for those interested - ref. bold text above - Yes, this doesn't seem to fit in with history telling us that the African slaves that came over were hispanized first, which I gather they were "second generation". It also could be that the "group" might be Africans who were brought to Haiti from a specific region of African and then of course over time have migrated to the DR. This is interesting and might be worthy to start another thread to study the African history based on DNA evidence. I wonder if any DNA studies like this have been done in Haiti?

[juancarlos]

Originally Posted by Baracutay

Eurasiatic is a very wide ranging Haplo group. Linguistically it is even more wide spread and encompasses many peoples. Genetically it means that people of Eurasiatic extraction can be Middle Eastern, Northern Africa, or Canary Islander. It can even be peoples from as far away as India! Why are there so many in the DR. Well apparently the Spanish who first came to the islands (at least their women) were not "pure" Spanish. Subsequent migrations didnot bring many more "pure" Spanish either.

AS for your wifes features it could be one or two of two things:

(1) There are many people in Jarabacoa of Chinese or Japanese descent.

(2) Jarabacoa and the sorounding areas (such as Costanza, etc) also has a large percentage of Taino as well. Please read this excerpt from 1949:

What appears most noteworthy about the entire district of Constanza, Dominican Republic is the fact that the population has remained almost pure Indian. Almonds shaped eyes, aquiline features, straight black hair, and high cheekbones all bear the stamp of Taíno and Carib strains. In “The Land Columbus Loved” Bertita Harding, 1949 Chapter 21, p141

baracutei

They are called Euroasiatic because these haplogroups are found or are common in both Europe and Asia. When I say "Asia", I do not mean Chinese, Filip. Korean etc. I mean the Levant, the Middle East, the Caucasus, India-Pakistan etc. Of course, they are also common in North Africa. Some are typical of Western Europe, others are mostly found in Eastern Europe or the Caucasus. But they are spread. A North African may have the same mt hg as an English woman/man, for example. While those
Dominicans who have high cheekbones, almond eyes etc. may be of Native ancestry, descended from the Tainos. Their maternal hgs may be like those found in Mongoloid Asia instead. In other words, A, B, C or D.

The fact that the percentage of Eurasian mt haplogroups was higher than expected, simply means that some Dominicans who are part of the mixed race population today, had a Cauc. maternal origin. It means that in years gone by the country's white population was greater than today's and that the mestizaje process increased over the decades. It could also be that in those places where the samples were taken, the white component is greater than in other places.

[Baracutay]

You are right JuanCarlos, but we actually covered this aspect already.
Thanks for the post!
Baracuaty

[souljanyn3]

I may of asked this before but is there a possibility of a pure Taino out in DR? I mean Its hard to think of it but I dont doubt this possibility at all I mean there were still Tainos being recorded living in DR in the late 1800's, so it is not too far fetched...where would the best survival areas be?

By the way in 2005 they made a movie entitled Taino where archaeologist in puerto Rico go to remote and isolated place in the interior of the island and find the last Taino Indians who have been hiding and isolated from civilization in a secret place, heres the link to it...

Tainos (2005)

[Chip]

Baracutay

What is your opinion as to the amount of mestizos left on the island? I know this term maybe somewhat vague as far as blood percentage goes but give it a whack anyway.

Thanks

[souljanyn3]

How About the amount of Zambos/Sambos on the island?

[Baracutay]

Sorry been away from the puter for a spell! My wife just had surgery so im in charge this week. LOL
To answer both your question chip and souljanyn3:

There is no way of knowing for sure if there are any pure tainos,especially since there never were any. I suppose that by pure you mean full blooded indian? I would say its possible but not probable. Even in Cuba where there are much larger and isolated Taino communities I doubt if there are any. But you never know.
Mestizo/Indians I believe make up a big part of what Dominicans refer to as "white". I believe that many white dominicans do in fact haev mestizaje.
As for the Zambos,it makes sense that there are probably more Afro/Taino mixes in the DR than anything else. After all two subjugated peoples living side by side are probably more apt to share genes, culture, etc than with the colonizers.
All the best
Baracutei

[souljanyn3]

Thanks Baracutey...do you have an estimate of around when the last pure indians might have lived on the island? and If there is a possibility of some pure indians being alive where would they have gone to?-region wise?

[A.Hidalgo]

I think he already answered your question......

Originally Posted by Baracutay

There is no way of knowing for sure if there are any pure tainos,especially since there never were any. I suppose that by pure you mean full blooded indian? I would say its possible but not probable.