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  #421  
Old 10-08-2008, 10:49 PM
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bachata Level 3 bachata Level 3 (150)
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This lady is my mother in law she is a native taino. she was born in a small town between La Vega and Santiago where most of the people have a big Taino desendence.

JJ.



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  #422  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:07 PM
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Thanks bachata, pictures like this really show that the Tainos weren't decimated within 50 years of Colombus' arrival.
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  #423  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:36 AM
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Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 (705)
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Oh they were decimated alright, they were just not annihilated or liquidated.

Decimated means ever tenth one....and that surely happened through disease and hunger and suicides..

I had to laugh (ridicule, actually) the response from the director of the Museum of Dominican Man....so territorial, so dogmatic, so stupid!! I asked my class what was the first requirement in order to head the museum: they all said degrees in anthropology, and stuff like that. I answered: NO, you have to be a member of the PLD!!! You read what he said and you have to laugh out loud....


Ans I had to laugh at Lynn Guitar's close lipped response to my student's questions, a few weeks ago when they asked about this very thing.and she said "the study is not finished"...heck no, neither is the one in the paper yesterday, but they got the publicity and not Lynn's group...

seems to me that this will eventually get settled...

HB
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  #424  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:13 PM
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A.Hidalgo Level 4 A.Hidalgo Level 4 A.Hidalgo Level 4 (268)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly View Post

I had to laugh (ridicule, actually) the response from the director of the Museum of Dominican Man....so territorial, so dogmatic, so stupid!! I asked my class what was the first requirement in order to head the museum: they all said degrees in anthropology, and stuff like that. I answered: NO, you have to be a member of the PLD!!! You read what he said and you have to laugh out loud....

I looked up the study the director of the museum quotes about an article by a Alfredo Coppa. The study from the Annals of Human Genetics is there but the named scientist is nowhere to be found.

Quote:
El director del Museo, que cuestiona también la exaltación de la memoria indígena en República Dominicana, citó el estudio también a partir de ADN mitocondrial del italiano Alfredo Coppa (publicado en las revistas Annals of Human Genetics, No. 65, y American Journal of Human Genetics, No. 69, ambas en el 2001)
http://www.listindiario.com.do/app/a....aspx?id=76515
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  #425  
Old 10-14-2008, 07:38 PM
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Larry B. Level 1 (10)
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I have to say that reading this thread and doing some follow up has opened up my mind quite a bit. I was steadfast as one of those who believed Taino's all but died off, and that their genetic contribution to modern Dominicans was minimal. I really hope more work continues to be done and we get some more conclusive results. It is a highly interesting subject. Thanks to DR1 for being one of the few sources for this type of info.
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  #426  
Old 10-15-2008, 11:13 AM
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Larry B. Level 1 (10)
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My grandma on my dad's side has some "native" features. But my great grandma also on my dad's side had very strong features. She resembled a Native American from here in the U.S. If I can scrounge up some pics of the two of them I will post.
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  #427  
Old 10-15-2008, 01:40 PM
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Baracutei Level 1 (10)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo View Post
The study indicates that 15% to 18% of the Dominican population has Taino ancestry trough maternal lineage. Looking forward to some feedback from Baracutay.
La República - Estudio demuestra que parte de dominicanos conserva genes taínos
Hola Hidalgo,
As you can see I had to change my name due to the fact that I couldnt remember my password! I have not been on here in a while.

As for the article, I thought it was great. As you know I have been involved in this DNA project for a while, mostly offering logistics. I would like to stress that the study was conducted in a random fashion. Because of this, many peoples from other Caribbean islands, notably Haiti, Barbados and even St, Thomas made their way into the study, this of course tainted somewhat the actual percenatges of African lineage. But NO one is denying that there is African lineage on the island. That would be absurd.
That said I want to remind all who view this thread that we nor the core team of researchers were out to prove that all Dominicans descend from Taino, nor am I trying to imply that there should be a special privilage for those of us who do have Taino ancestry, after all we are all Dominican.

The study indicates that not only do a high percenatge of Dominicans have Taino ancestry but also that it appears that the Native ancestry in the Cibao region was relatively "un-mixed" up to recent times. This is deduced by the fact that in many areas in the Cibao the mitochondrial DNA was at an astonoshing 90%.
Of course for many people this is un-welcome news. Remember the rhetoric at one time was that there is not a single drop of Indian blood on the island. And even if there was it HAD to be minimal.
Now that we know that this is simply and scientifically not true, you will see a cadre of people who truly have an anti-Indian agenda and will no doubt claim that the study was biased, etc etc. I call it "blotting out the sun with a fingertip"!
I have to also state that just because an individual has mtdna that is Taino that does not make him or her Indian. For that matter just because someone has mtdna that is African that should not make him African either. It is when we take a close inspection of Dominican material culture especially that found in the campo where one can see just how much Taino influence there really is.
Another test that needs to be conducted is an Autosomal DNA test which gives an individual bio-geographical percentages. In these tests Dominicans regardless of what the mtDNA tests reveal indicate that most dominicans have some Native ancestry.
I am not trying to turn Dominicans into Indians! What I want people to understand that if and when a Dominican claims Native Ancestry, he is not denying his negritude or is anti-haitian, racist or delusional. We have a right to an identity just as anyone else. Until now this portion of Dominicaness has only been acepted as long as it is in the realm of the past. This is why in the DR we speak of "nuestros aborigenes (as though we owned them) instead of our Taino ancestors.
Pero el tiempo esta cambiando
All the best
Baracutei
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  #428  
Old 10-15-2008, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baracutei View Post
The study indicates that not only do a high percenatge of Dominicans have Taino ancestry but also that it appears that the Native ancestry in the Cibao region was relatively "un-mixed" up to recent times. This is deduced by the fact that in many areas in the Cibao the mitochondrial DNA was at an astonoshing 90%.
At least now people (incl myself) know that I'm not crazy for saying that the Taino phenotypes are very strong here in Cibao, especially Jarabacoa.

This also lends credibility to my theory that there were probably intact Taino communities maybe up until the late 1800's in the Central Cordillera region much in the same way the Cherokee Indians were able to stay intact for years even after they were all supposedly exiled to Oklahoma.

Thanks for the info Jorge.
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  #429  
Old 10-15-2008, 02:38 PM
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JRMirador Level 1 (24)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baracutei View Post
...

Pero el tiempo esta cambiando

Baracutei
Baracutei, you are so right, times are a changing, and a change we can believe in.

JRMirador
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  #430  
Old 10-30-2008, 01:27 AM
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SuperConejo Level 1 (30)
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Its good to see you back Baracutei, but i think its up in the air whether Haitians in the test would offset the African percentage, being that where part of the same island, and also there are some dominicans who may have ancient haitian ancestry of African origin, or even ancient haitian ancestry of Taino origin. I think that Haitians form the fabric of dominican society and would not change the results of the test at all, now cape verdeans, st. thomans and other recent islanders would make somewhat of a difference as they havent been on the island long.

My own family is a testimony to this, i have two Haitian family lines, surname Mayi and surname Jose. The Jose's in my family look very afroindegenous, with somewhat of a predominance of indegenous, yet they are of Haitian-descent. I dont think Haitian always equals african ancestry, the Mayi's are also a simlar case but i know less about them so i can't make conclusions. This was a great test you did, and i think it proves that the Taino's never died out, the big myth has been put to rest, maybe our Taino Mtdna isn't as high as puertorico's, but our culture is just as influenced. The Autosomal tests will be interesting, i am thinking of taking one myself, although autosomal is rather ever-changing, they seem to be getting more and more accurate.
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