Tainos in the DR?

[JRMirador]

How about some limericks to lighten up the thread....

There is this young lady named Kelly
Who had a big bulge for a belly
Her pants were so tight
we had to take flight
because the noises she made were so smelly

[Salsassin]

Originally Posted by Baracutei

Hola Hidalgo,
As you can see I had to change my name due to the fact that I couldnt remember my password! I have not been on here in a while.

As for the article, I thought it was great. As you know I have been involved in this DNA project for a while, mostly offering logistics. I would like to stress that the study was conducted in a random fashion. Because of this, many peoples from other Caribbean islands, notably Haiti, Barbados and even St, Thomas made their way into the study, this of course tainted somewhat the actual percenatges of African lineage. But NO one is denying that there is African lineage on the island. That would be absurd.
That said I want to remind all who view this thread that we nor the core team of researchers were out to prove that all Dominicans descend from Taino, nor am I trying to imply that there should be a special privilage for those of us who do have Taino ancestry, after all we are all Dominican.

The study indicates that not only do a high percenatge of Dominicans have Taino ancestry but also that it appears that the Native ancestry in the Cibao region was relatively "un-mixed" up to recent times. This is deduced by the fact that in many areas in the Cibao the mitochondrial DNA was at an astonoshing 90%.
Of course for many people this is un-welcome news. Remember the rhetoric at one time was that there is not a single drop of Indian blood on the island. And even if there was it HAD to be minimal.
Now that we know that this is simply and scientifically not true, you will see a cadre of people who truly have an anti-Indian agenda and will no doubt claim that the study was biased, etc etc. I call it "blotting out the sun with a fingertip"!
I have to also state that just because an individual has mtdna that is Taino that does not make him or her Indian. For that matter just because someone has mtdna that is African that should not make him African either. It is when we take a close inspection of Dominican material culture especially that found in the campo where one can see just how much Taino influence there really is.
Another test that needs to be conducted is an Autosomal DNA test which gives an individual bio-geographical percentages. In these tests Dominicans regardless of what the mtDNA tests reveal indicate that most dominicans have some Native ancestry.
I am not trying to turn Dominicans into Indians! What I want people to understand that if and when a Dominican claims Native Ancestry, he is not denying his negritude or is anti-haitian, racist or delusional. We have a right to an identity just as anyone else. Until now this portion of Dominicaness has only been acepted as long as it is in the realm of the past. This is why in the DR we speak of "nuestros aborigenes (as though we owned them) instead of our Taino ancestors.
Pero el tiempo esta cambiando
All the best
Baracutei

Jorge, any luck with getting a Y-Chromosome and an autosomal test done?

[Salsassin]

Originally Posted by NALs

Are you positively sure that you are predominantly of African ancestry or you are simply assuming that based on your appearance?

I say this because Dr. Henry Louis Gates, JR; a respected African-American professor at Harvard University, by all accounts looks 'black' (well, he actually looks mulatto, but that's besides the point) and yet, when he subjected himself to a DNA test to discover his genetic make-up, it was found, to his surprise, that most of his genes come from IRELAND.

Look at the guy, does he looks Irish to anyone?

Doubt it and yet, most of his biological heritage is Irish or European.

I'm not saying that that is your case, but there is only one way to find out what anyone truly is and that thing runs through everyone's veins. Looks, as the old saying goes, can be deceiving.

African American Lives

-NALs

Uh no. HLG Jr. Does not look more African. He looks more "Black" Because the Black community has more admixture in it than the "White" community. He still looks lighter than Obama and Obama's facial features are a direct split down the middle with general face angles favoring the mother. They both are seen as more "Black" looking because of historical one droppism and inclusiveness of mixed people into the Black community. HLG Jr did no test as having more Irish than African. He tested 50/50. His Y chromosome and his mtDNA came Irish. That just means he has had an interrupted male lineage and female lineage that traces back to Irish people. Just going back four generations, if we knew for a fact that there was a irish man in the paternal lineage and an irish woman in the maternal side 4 generations ago, it would mean that for sure two ancestor out of a possible 16 were Irish. But with that same result It could also possibly mean that 14 out of 16 ancestors in that generation where African, or 30 out of 32 in the generation before, or 62 out of 64 in the generation before that. That is why mtDNA and Y-Chromosome are not good indicators of admixture levels at the individual level.

[Capo]

The Taino blood still runs.

[Haitian101]

I don't have any scientific data to back it up, but I believe the region between Morne La selle ( mountain chains around Jacmel) and the Bahoruco region may have some native blood pockets.

Caribs and Arrawaks fought alongside Henry (Enriquillo?) in the southern mountains. It's unlikely that the bellicose caribs (the likes of Caonabo and Guarionex) would have all accepted to follow Henry to Sto-Dgo.

Also, before cacique Henry was forced to settle around Sto-Dgo, he was joined in that region by the first black maroons who revolted against slavery. The deal that Henry had with the Spaniards did not include those black allies who mostly remained in the mountains fighting indian style guerillas.

The descendents of those people probably still carry indian genetic materials.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Haitian101

I don't have any scientific data to back it up, but I believe the region between Morne La selle ( mountain chains around Jacmel) and the Bahoruco region may have some native blood pockets.

Caribs and Arrawaks fought alongside Henry (Enriquillo?) in the southern mountains. It's unlikely that the bellicose caribs (the likes of Caonabo and Guarionex) would have all accepted to follow Henry to Sto-Dgo.

Also, before cacique Henry was forced to settle around Sto-Dgo, he was joined in that region by the first black maroons who revolted against slavery. The deal that Henry had with the Spaniards did not include those black allies who mostly remained in the mountains fighting indian style guerillas.

The descendents of those people probably still carry indian genetic materials.

Please post your historical references - Merry Xmas.

[bachata]

Originally Posted by Haitian101

I don't have any scientific data to back it up, but I believe the region between Morne La selle ( mountain chains around Jacmel) and the Bahoruco region may have some native blood pockets.

This thread is about Tainos in the DR. we are not talking about Haiti. I've seen that you are trying to mix the Dominican History with the Haitian.
Somos muy distintos, ustedes son Africanos y nosotros somos Tainos mezclados con Españoles OK.

JJ

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by bachata

Somos muy distintos, ustedes son Africanos y nosotros somos Tainos mezclados con Españoles OK.

Read below from the expert on these matters.

Originally Posted by Baracutei

Since Dominicans have been mixing for a longer period of time than haitians or cubans, pr's etc you will undoubtedly find that no matter how African a population is there will always be European and Amerindian admixture,especially in autosomal DNA. Of course the same hold true that no matter how Pure Indian or high mtdna or autosomal Indian DNA one finds in any specific location in the DR the African and European are also present.

[Capo]

How can you tell if you have Taino blood?

[MDWsur]

I apologize for my total ignorance of the subject at hand, but didn't the Tainos emigrate to the Caribbean islands from SA in the first place? If I am not mistaken, the Tainos were NEVER a pure blooded race from the beginning, but a mix of South American Indian and Arawak tribes from their earliest days.

Doesn't this make the theory of a PURE blooded Taino people irrelevant from the outset? I thought the Taino were a cultural amalgamation of many tribes...

Maybe I am wrong