Are Dominicans better off?

[Don Juan]

I'm curious from older DR hands than myself - what comparisons can be drawn about the schools now, versus 40 years ago?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't tell you much about it since my family left for the States in '63 when I was 12. We were fleeing the civil war that broke out shortly after trujillo's demise. But up to that time, schools were compulsory and free all the way to the university level.
I attended public school in Ciudad Trujillo (Republica de Haiti and Rep. de Cuba). It had a breakfast program consisting of bread with butter and a bottle of "Tropicoco", a blend of milk and chocolate- delicious and fulfilling!

Don't think DR' primary schools today have such a program. Sad because, having a good-or not so good- breakfast, is what so many children lack in most third world countries, and so essential to learning and developing the minds that someday may lift the country, any country, out of dire poverty and misery.
The corrupt members of government, with notable exceptions, that by greed, indifference, apathy, and downright theft of funds, deny literacy to an entire generation of children and condemn our nation to perpetual third-world status, should be tried and imprisoned for crimes against humanity.

I consider these government parasites to be a malady worse than Trujillo's most ghastly crime against our people.
Until our government stops pouring humongous sums into money pits such as the metro, and restore our birthright to education, DR will remain what it is today: A backwards nation, full of crime and despair.
Heaven help us!

[Chirimoya]

Every time I travel the person who sits next to me just happens to have mislaid his/her glasses, and ask me to fill out the immigration form for them. When it comes to signing, you can tell they're completely illiterate. Last time this happened the person concerned was born in 1939, and would have gone through school in the Trujillo years, when schooling was supposed to be compulsory.

Although the public education system is still in a terrible state, it's always the older ones who seem to need this assistance, FWIW.

[A.Hidalgo]

A democracy can be a messy endeavor. History is repleted with examples of the long and bumpy road that needs to be transversed, but with time, effort and the nurturing of democratic institutions it can be a beautiful thing.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Don Juan

Don't think DR' primary schools today have such a program. Sad because, having a good-or not so good- breakfast, is what so many children lack in most third world countries, and so essential to learning and developing the minds that someday may lift the country, any country, out of dire poverty and misery.

Don Juan,

The breakfast program in Dominican public schools has been in effect for quite some time since Leonel came back to power. I'm sure every single school is probably not offering breakfast, but many are right now.

There are many good news that people on DR1 either don't want to discuss or are not interested in doing such.

For example, let's take the electricity case. Everyone here is quick to discuss how horrible the electric system is and give the impression that nothing is being done to fix the problem of blackouts.

If I was to take every opinion DR1ers post here as fact, I probably would have lost all hope for the DR.

But, it turns out that the electricity problem is currently being fixed.

According to Listin Diario (which published the following story earlier this week) the Edes (electricity companies) already have 200 circuits nationwide on the 24 hours electricity plan.

Originally Posted by Listin Diario

"Las tres empresas distribuidoras cuentan con 200 circuitos donde ofrecen energía eléctrica 24 horas al día, lo que obedece al programa de recuperación del sector puesto en ejecución desde finales del año pasado y acordado con el Fondo Monetario."

"...la cantidad de barrios y poblaciones que han sido incorporados a los programas de suministro continuo se debe a la reducción de los niveles de pérdidas, en vista de que la población es solidaria y toma conciencia sobre la necesidad de pagar el servicio eléctrico. En los próximos días será anunciada la incorporación de Jarabacoa, Santiago Rodríguez y 67 barrios de Santiago."

24 HORAS LUZLas Edes cuentan con 200 circuitos

If I would have gotten my information by mere hearsay on the forums of DR1, I would have thought that the authorities were doing nothing to fix the problem, when in fact they are doing something and they are fixing the problem.

The same goes with the notion that anti-drug trafficking actions from police is only to "eliminate competition" as oppose to getting rid of drug trafficking. Of course, are there some corrupt cops, yes! Are all corrupt? No! And the fact that everyone is not corrupt shows through the progressive acts which NOT A SINGLE DR1ER BOTHERED TO TALK ABOUT OR EVEN PUT IN THE NEWS SECTION.

Then again, DR1ers on average have tended to be quite cynical when it comes to discussing progress in the DR, but progress is occuring monetarily, progress is occuring in fixing many of the problems, progress is occuring which no one wants to either talk about or believe it.

-NALs

[Rick Snyder]

Comparing people's life situations and relative security and the nostalgic desire for the way it used to be has a tendency to ask what it is that has changed.

I too remember growing up in Washington DC in the 50’s and at that time, as indicated by Cobraboy, we lived a pretty secure life and the only fear was of a possible nuclear attack from Russia.

It is the ability to live life without fear that makes us comfortable and secure. Also related to this equation are the freedoms that are afforded to a people. Looking back on history of the DR it is interesting to note the disposition of the Dominican people at the times of Trujillo and Balaguer. Though it appears that all lived a more tranquil life it appears that ‘fear’ was an ever present part of life as can be witnessed by speaking to Dominicans of that time frame and by the number of people that were murdered almost on a daily basis at the hands of these two leaders.

In my conversations with the elder Dominicans I find it interesting when they tell me that they looked upon these two leaders with respect. When I question them further and say, “Is it possible that rather then respect you felt fear and were in fact afraid of them?” They have all replied, “Yes I was afraid of him as you could never tell what he may do”. Of course they are quick to point out that the redeeming feature of these two men where that their toughness was used against those that would do wrong against their fellow Dominicans and because of this their ‘fear’ was outweighed by knowledge that those caught doing wrong would be punished.

It is apparent that the Dominican people were deprived of many of their present day freedoms. These freedoms not being evident at the time bring out the old adage, “If you live in a stooped position long enough you can come to mistake it for an upright stance”.

With the added freedoms enjoyed by present day Dominicans then the ability to live life with less ‘fear’ should be the reality but it isn’t. These added freedoms are one of the major components of a democracy but all that is best left for another thread.

As to education in this country I think the majority of the board knows my feelings concerning this close to the heart subject. If there are any members out there that have an interest in learning about present day education in this country a quick search for past threads on the subject are in abundance. Referring back to the older Dominicans that I have talked to they have informed me that under Trujillo there were no meals supplied to the students. Under Balaguer the food supplied to the students seems to have been of a better quality and quantity then that supplied presently under both Hippo and LF. Of course my thought on this particular subject is whether this ‘free’ food should be given out to all students or should there be a determining factor as to who should be afforded this ‘free’ food. I only say this because there are a number of people that can well afford food for their children and do in fact send their children to school with a full belly. Having witnessed the disposition of the leftover food daily, and there is a lot of it, there would appear to be a better way to control this.

Rick

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Rick Snyder

If there are any members out there that have an interest in learning about present day education in this country a quick search for past threads on the subject are in abundance.
Rick

A better option would be to read the following report:

The Education Sector in the Dominican Republic: Overachievements and Underperformance

Of course, such report are the so called " dry bookish stuff ", so be forewarned that if you don't like reports which deal with hard facts, don't read the report.

However, I think the report does a much better job at describing the education situation as accurately as possible, without taking sides for or against the findings. The discussions on the thread tend to lack "neutrability" and thus, become unattractive to someone who is more like myself.

In other words, anyone who likes to see proofs without additional baggage would find the answers to their questions regarding public education in the Dominican Republic by simply reading the that report rather than reading the lofty threads.

-NALs

[Lambada]

I would certainly agree that there have been changes in the DR - I've noticed many in a short time span of 14 years. Whether all of them are 'progress' is much more debateable. I like to think that the current social ills are outward manifestations of a country going through a rapid period of social change, a social revolution, if you will. I think this potentially volatile situation will calm down noticeably (one way or the other ) inside, say something like a 10 year period. As rapid periods of social change go, this one has been complicated by the drugs/crime issue becoming an issue at the same time.

Overall, I'm not unduly pessimistic for the future of the DR. Where I do agree with some of the posters above is that the corruption of many politicians here is the biggest barrier to positive development. I had such high hopes for Leonel (I mean, no-one could have been worse than Hipolito, could they?) but of course he has allowed his Government to fall into the same old trap of exploiting the population. I'm annoyed at my political naivete: I was really willing the current administration to get it right. Instead of which they turn out to be a more articulate bunch of the same old same old. Now if the country was run by a coalition of community groups, business interests, social welfare organisations and those with a vocation for this sort of thing, I think we'd be a lot better off.

And Chiri, I must have more luck with my travelling companions. The young lady sitting next to me on the Metro bus on Wednesday was due to complete her degree in electrical engineering this year. I couldn't get her to practice her English (just lack of confidence, despite hearing all my mistakes in Spanish) so we decided to speak in a third language we both had but were unsure of, for fun. That led on to 'what other languages do you know?' so I trotted out my one and only phrase in Mandarin Chinese and...........she finished the sentence for me.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Don Juan

Mr. Cobraboy, I certainly do not endorse nor condone living in a repressive dictatorship, but you must admit that today's DR. is much more oppressive due to high crime and governmental/police corruption than just twenty or so years ago.
In the forties, fifties and early sixties, DR experienced a brutal, totalitarian government, I admit. My point is that back then, you only had Trujillo and his goons to fear. Drug dealing and getting killed over a cheap item was unheard of. The police didn't/couldn't shake you down as it is regularly done today.
Life was less complicated and all was peaceful.
Back then, firearms were carried only by the military and other big shots. Today, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of civilians -don't really know for sure-, carry guns. The more guns in the streets, the easier to commit crimes.
I'm comparing people's life situations and relative security, not political dissimilarities.
I certainly do not "prefer" a Trujillo over a Balaguer or Fernandez, but I do long for the good ol' days when life was simpler everywhere in the world.

No real disagreement from me. I just find that sometimes romantic nostalgia is more easily remembered than the hard times.

The entire world is less friendly today than it was 40-50-60 years ago. One thing for sure: we hear more about the world now than then, a function of communication technology.

I see it as rats in a cage. At some point peaceful pet rats become violent when there are too many in the cage. The population of the DR was much smaller 40 years ago than today. Seems to me there are more people on the island than the island can peacefully support. Just imagine what it would be like if all the Dominicans in the US came back to live in the DR.

It is very difficult not to look at life without factoring in the political situation.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo

A democracy can be a messy endeavor. History is repleted with examples of the long and bumpy road that needs to be transversed, but with time, effort and the nurturing of democratic institutions it can be a beautiful thing.

Very true.

Democracy is very hard.

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

It is very difficult not to look at life without factoring in the political situation.

Very true. There's a new book out by Marino Zapete called La Volvieron Loca. All about corruption in the current and the immediately previous administrations. If they do an English translation it could surpass Moya Pons book as offering 'light bulb' moments to aspiring expats.