Race and the armed forces in the DR

[something_of_the_night]

Originally Posted by Matilda

And Dominican military are not allowed to go to Cuba.

I know Dominicans in the US Armed Forces who have been to Gitmo.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by something_of_the_night

I know Dominicans in the US Armed Forces who have been to Gitmo.

Gitmo is U.S. territory. Laws of Cuba and the Cuban government have no jurisdiction over the U.S. military base in Guantanamo. Thus, going to Gitmo is not the samething as going to Cuba, eventhough Gitmo is on the island of Cuba but politically is a military territory of the United States.

-NALs

[something_of_the_night]

Originally Posted by NALs

Gitmo is U.S. territory. Laws of Cuba and the Cuban government have no jurisdiction over the U.S. military base in Guantanamo. Thus, going to Gitmo is not the samething as going to Cuba, eventhough Gitmo is on the island of Cuba but politically is a military territory of the United States.

-NALs

Really? Ahora me desayuno!

[Rick Snyder]

Matilda,

We appreciate your participation in the debates on this board but I as a member have difficulty in some of that which you posted. You said, “Just a couple of points which I am not sure will add very much to this but I think are interesting....Quite a few Dominican soldiers have been sent to Iraq. Not many have come back”.

Now I am assuming that the two last sentences are in fact connected. I mean to say that you imply that out of the 600 or so soldiers that Hippo sent to Iraq that few have returned from Iraq. Is this what you are implying?

Before you answer that question please be so kind as to read those links that I have underlined and bolded in this text. According to this report no Dominican soldiers have been killed in Iraq. That is not to saw that there haven’t been Americans that are also Dominicans that have been killed there.

I wish to also add that a number of Dominicans were contracted to go to Iraq as drivers working for private companies that transport goods for all the forces fighting over there. This has proven to be a dangerous job and as such I think I remember a number of drivers, don’t remember nationality or number, being killed in their line of duty but these contracted civilians are not part of the coalition forces over there and are therefore not soldiers. I do believe, but could be wrong, that all Dominican soldiers sent over to Iraq as coalition forces did all come back before their scheduled, contracted term of service was completed.

Your reference to travel to Cuba, it holds no relation to this thread and I also can’t comment on it as I have no experience as to what is or isn’t allowed of Dominican soldiers in the aspect of travel out of country.

In reference to your statement as to what was required to get out of a contracted and ordered service to ones country I think speaks volumes.

Rick

[Matilda]

Rick my point was: many people on this thread are saying or alluding that the Dominican Armed forces are a 'waste of time'. However, that is as maybe, but they seem to have provided a resource for fighting in Iraq (as requested by the US?) or driving or whatever. I do know of Dominican soldiers who have been killed. The second point is that why should Dominican soldiers not be allowed to Cuba, unless it is to do with the relationship with the US?? And I agree re your final statement, but I also think you would agree that some US servicemen and/or their families do not wish to go to Iraq. In the UK armed forces it has been known for people to break their legs so they do not have to go.

[Chirimoya]

About 300 Dominican army troops went to Iraq as part of the international force - they all came back safely. Maybe you mean US Army soldiers of Dominican origin? I know that several of them have been killed.

[Rick Snyder]

I had written a rather long response but I erased it and will just say this;

Back in post #16 I said, “As the words defense, fighting and dying are usually the first words to be associated with the military then the ability to recruit the necessary members becomes difficult”.

The DR, like most countries, has a non-conscription military service. Anyone joining such a service is doing so on a voluntary basis and is also swearing to defend their country and follow all orders given them. Any attempt to countermand such orders is punishable by jail and or discharge. This is as it should be and needs to be in order for a military to function properly regardless as to your personal views on the matter.

As to the necessity or usefulness of the DR military, this as I had mentioned earlier, has been discussed to ad nauseam and I therefore have no personal desire to go there again.

When I get the opportunity I will investigate the claim of a Dominican soldier not being able to travel to Cuba. My personal thoughts are that this is a falacy but as I don't know for certain and as my interest has now been aroused I will check it out and get back.

Rick

[George Holmes]

My understanding of why the government puts up with so many generals etc, and why it turns a blind eye to their involvement with drugs etc, is because all Presidents know they can't take too hard a line on them lest there be a military coup. Certainly high ranking military officials has no qualms about making statements about non-military matters, such as preferred PLD presidential candidates (but so too have people like the Cardinal). The possibility of a military coup is not too distant in the DR.

This is not to say that Leonel doesn't do anything agains the military - I think he forcefully retired a few generals on his first day in office back in 96 - but rather he doesn't do very much because he knows the consequences of pushing too hard.

[NALs]

Leonel also fired many generals and incompetent military figures at the beginning of the current administration. Remember when he took office in 2004 and within weeks he fired a large number of generals, so many that everyone was expecting a coup to occur but nothing happened?

Seems that DR1ers have a short memory or perhaps its highly selective at best?

-NALs

[Rick Snyder]

US03 who is everyone that you reference in your statement, "so many that everyone was expecting a coup to occur but nothing happened"?

There sure weren't any Dominicans in my neck of the woods that were talking about the feasibility of or expecting a coup.

It has been my experience that this firing and mandatory retiring has happened throughout all government changes in this country. These processes are usually followed by massive hiring or the establishment of a new sector of the military which requires additional personnel. With a little investigation I believe it would be found that during this 'hiring process' that a large number of the 'officer corps' that are hired are in fact related to those that have been fired. At least that is the indication I've gotten from Dominicans that I have spoken to.

Just another example of how messed up another segment of your government is.

Rick