Race and the armed forces in the DR

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Rick Snyder

US03 who is everyone that you reference in your statement, "so many that everyone was expecting a coup to occur but nothing happened"?

There sure weren't any Dominicans in my neck of the woods that were talking about the feasibility of or expecting a coup.

It has been my experience that this firing and mandatory retiring has happened throughout all government changes in this country. These processes are usually followed by massive hiring or the establishment of a new sector of the military which requires additional personnel. With a little investigation I believe it would be found that during this 'hiring process' that a large number of the 'officer corps' that are hired are in fact related to those that have been fired. At least that is the indication I've gotten from Dominicans that I have spoken to.

Just another example of how messed up another segment of your government is.

Rick

You are in El Seybo, of all places. A province with a population around the 100,000 mark; hardly influential in Dominican politics, economy, or society in general. If anything, El Seybo is influenced by Santo Domingo but not vice-versa. You expect your valuations from El Seybo to be indicative of what's happening at the nerve center of the political apparatus?

How many family members (by blood) do you have living in the Capital? How often do you contact them? Do they have access to information that is not readily available to the public?

Come on, tell me.

Everyone I know in Santo Domingo, Santiago, Moca, etc and they are many, were concerned of a possible coup the moment Leonel dismissed a large number of military personnel. That was after everyone was sure that nothing will happen because the military had made certain statements that seemed as a message to Leonel to not fire as many as he planned to and eventually did.

Such concern was expressed to me via phone, email, and in person.

Sure, no one was scared to the point of panicking, but many people were concerned of possible consequences due to Leonel's actions.

Sorry, but what happens in Santo Domingo and what the people who live in Santo Domingo think about such topics have greater weight that what some one in middle of nowhere, in a province with no great economic, social, or political importance on a national scope may think or witness. Especially when such person has limit contact and access to information eminating from the political nerve center of the country.

I'll believe a resident of the capital or Santiago (certainly family members, old friends, and acquaintances) much easier than someone in El Seybo.

For goodness sakes!

-NALs

[Mirador]

Originally Posted by NALs

You are in El Seybo, of all places. A province with a population around the 100,000 mark; hardly influential in Dominican politics, economy, or society in general. If anything, El Seybo is influenced by Santo Domingo but not vice-versa. You expect your valuations from El Seybo to be indicative of what's happening at the nerve center of the political apparatus?

How many family members (by blood) do you have living in the Capital? How often do you contact them? Do they have access to information that is not readily available to the public?

Come on, tell me.

Everyone I know in Santo Domingo, Santiago, Moca, etc and they are many, were concerned of a possible coup the moment Leonel dismissed a large number of military personnel. That was after everyone was sure that nothing will happen because the military had made certain statements that seemed as a message to Leonel to not fire as many as he planned to and eventually did.

Such concern was expressed to me via phone, email, and in person.

Sure, no one was scared to the point of panicking, but many people were concerned of possible consequences due to Leonel's actions.

Sorry, but what happens in Santo Domingo and what the people who live in Santo Domingo think about such topics have greater weight that what some one in middle of nowhere, in a province with no great economic, social, or political importance on a national scope may think or witness.

I'll believe a resident of the capital or Santiago (certainly family members, old friends, and acquaintances) much easier than someone in El Seybo.

For goodness sakes!

-NALs

I can vouch that Rick Snyder is much better informed on matters of DR military than most people on this board, including Mr. NALs, even myself who has direct informants within, among others, the G-2 and J-2. And I can assure you that there was absolutely no threat of a military coup upon Leonel Fernandez taking office. It is routine for a newly elected president to rotate and retire military officers at the beginning of their administration.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Mirador

I can vouch that Rick Snyder is much better informed on matters of DR military than most people on this board, including Mr. NALs, even myself who has direct informants within, among others, the G-2 and J-2. And I can assure you that there was absolutely no threat of a military coup upon Leonel Fernandez taking office. It is routine for a newly elected president to rotate and retire military officers at the beginning of their administration.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I will not put the opinions of those who made me aware of such below the opinion of people whom I have never met or know.

In part is due to trust and also to my knowledge of where they stand in the DR, their experiences, their accomplishments and whether or not they are in the military itself and further up in the government.

And I know that the entire civil servant segment, various military posts, etc are changed when a new party goes into power. They even kick former military personnel out of their military offered apartments and left to fend for themselves after such thing occured.

But, Leonel kicked more than is usual to the curve (mostly due to the higher than usual enrollment into the higher ranking positions in the military during Hippo's administration) and some folks expressed concern.

-NALs

[Rick Snyder]

All of which brings us right back full circle to the facts and situations as they relate to this poor excuse of a government that we have here and the services they provide, or normally the lack thereof, to the population as a whole. Regardless as to which thread we are in or the subject matter being discussed everything revolves around the total corruption here and the desire of the elite few to not want to make things better whereas the populace benefits as a whole and are allowed the opportunity to advance.

US03 your attempt to separate the other provinces of this country has always been one of your mainstays and serves too as a further indication as to where you stand in your thoughts as they relate to this country as a whole. It is because of people like you that this country has always and will probably always stand divided between the very few haves and the large percentage of have-nots. As was referenced in another thread by someone other then me, “you should be ashamed to call yourself Dominican”. As it relates to the advancement of this country for everyone I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment.

Now having said all that then I apologize to the board members for the direction that this thread has taken. Be it known and have it serve as a forewarning that if we fail to get this thread back to some degree of proper track that the red button will prevail.

Rick

[Rick Snyder]

Okay, I’m ready to give the following report on my investigation of the availability of Dominican soldiers, from all branches, to travel to Cuba from the DR. In conducting this investigation I relied on the words of Dominican soldiers as I have no access to published rules and regulations of the Dominican military. I interviewed 6 soldiers of which one is a Lieutenant General, two Colonels, one Lieutenant Colonel, one Captain and one Sergeant Major. They all said that Dominican soldiers are sent to Cuba regularly to be taught medicine and that to travel there in a civilian mode they would need the same papers as any other Dominican citizen and that there is no directive saying they couldn’t go there to visit. They did say that a Dominican soldier trying to use his position within the military as a means to gain access to Cuba without proper paperwork to support such a travel would more then likely cause many problems.

Hope this answers any question concerning this subject.

Rick

[A.Hidalgo]

Rick

Nice field research. I may not agree with you sometimes but I like the motivation to search for the truth, not gossip or "someone told me"

[Matilda]

Thanks for the research Rick. Great we can go to Cuba now. When we tried to go 2 years ago we were told by the then General of the Air Force (my husband was in the Air Force), that no members of the Dominican Military were allowed to go to Cuba. Whenever a member of the armed forces wishes to leave the country they need to have a paper of permission to leave from their commanding officer. We were told this would not be forthcoming for a visit to Cuba, but no problems (we had it) for Panama, the US and the UK. So, obviously this General was wrong. It was not 'gossip' when I said this, it was my own personal experience trying to go to Cuba with a member of the armed forces. By the way, I thought Dominicans didn't need a visa to go to Cuba, so maybe when they said 'proper paperwork' to support such travel, they meant military permission to go to Cuba?? And if that is not forthcoming, then you can't go??? Is that Catch 22??

Thanks anyway for your research

matilda

[Rick Snyder]

Sorry Matilda the thought of what paperwork never entered my mind. Not knowing if a visa is required I do know that a passport is required as that is part of the nornal procedure for any Dominican to step out of their country legally.

As to 'commander permission' this is very likely and understandable. Even in the US an active military member must have a pass or leave request signed by a higher authority which always leaves open the door for the higher authority to circumvent the best laid plans.

Rick

[aegap]

from confiscating fake cigars to riot control and the DNCD (even including civil criminal investigations) ..Secret Service stuff ...airport security, ..the Dominican Armed Forces is pretty much a third world equivalent of the French Gendarmerie...

In fact, if it wasn't official already, I'd say Leonel made it so last month, ..

"DECRETO CREA DIRECTIVA
Habrá cambios en FF.AA con nuevo organismo de seguridad nacional"


"Presidente crea Directiva de Seguridad y Defensa Nacional"


"SANTO DOMINGO.-El Presidente Leonel Fernández creó este miércoles mediante decreto la Directiva de Seguridad y Defensa Nacional de la República Dominicana para salvaguardar a los dominicanos y asegurar la estabilidad internacional. Con la creación del organismo serán revisados los roles de las Fuerzas Armadas y la Policia Nacional."

Habrá cambios en FF.AA con nuevo organismo de seguridad nacional :: Noticias :: DiarioDigitalRD.com - Noticias Republica Dominicana

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Seems to me if Leonel has his way, "Dominican Army" may soon become a ceremonial name only...

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