Metro will be "cheap" ja ja ja ja

[Mirador]

Originally Posted by Don Juan

.... You people are so biased that you can only see in tunnel-vision, based on the here-and-now, and not in a panoramic future that, by necessity, must involve a subway system.

ROGL.... I refuse to believe that the irony has escaped you by calling us, those who oppose the SD Metro project, as having "tunnel-vision"....

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Don Juan

You people are so biased that you can only see in tunnel-vision, based on the here-and-now, and not in a panoramic future that, by necessity, must involve a subway system.

DR1 is nothing, you should see the critics in the Dominican media whenever they criticize the metro.

But, much of that is politically motivated which explains why so many absurd things have been said.

Remember, the tunnels were going to be flooded because of the underground rivers in SDQ and the pillars along Av. Mirabal in Villa Mella were going to sink because "the soil wouldn't support so much weight".

Oooh aaah, nothing has happened. The closest to the flooding was caused by a ruptured water main and that was fixed (it doesn't really count because the critics claimed that the flooding would be from the rivers, not a ruptured water main). Everything else is wishful thinking or should I say destructive thinking.

However, the one aspect that Dominican media critics and DR1 critics do share is that both want to know more than the people who studied a particular subject. They want to know more of economics than economists, they want to know more of engineering than the engineers, they want to know more about politics than political scientists, they want to know more than the experts.

And the problem is that they may want to, but they can't.

You can never do another man's job. Anyone who has ever operated a business within a specific niche market knows this very well.

-NALs

[NALs]

Mirador, there's light at the end of the tunnel, sooner or later you'll reach it.

-NALs

[Mirador]

Originally Posted by NALs

Mirador, there's light at the end of the tunnel, sooner or later you'll reach it.

-NALs

I have seen it quite clearly, and it is the increasing social inequality created by the government spending the combined total educational, health, and environmental departments budget, plus indebting the country with loans that will take generations to pay back, in order to build a subway for the sake of benefiting its cronies and associates, with the "spin" that the project will solve the transportation problems in the capital city of SD, but actually will be used by less than 1% of the population. At the end of the tunnel are people like doña Mencho (below), who daily mounts her burro and travels 10 kilometers carrying two sack loads of charcoal to the market in Azua in order to bring sustenance to her family. Charcoal making happens to be one of most prevalent economic activity of the people of the DR South West, and most of the charcoal is being bootlegged to Haiti, where 80% of the population uses it for cooking purposes. …

[Rick Snyder]

The wanna-be expert has spoken as it relates to critics be they from DR1, the Dominican community or anywhere else in the world. As a guise of defense he will have you believe that critics hold a deep seated desire to want to know MORE than an expert when the reality of the situation is that they want to know MORE than what has been presented be it by experts or others.

When talking about the SD Metro one of the major critics that comes to mind is Señor El ingeniero geólogo Osiris de León and all that he had to say about this project. Being the expert that he is I would think that the logical thing that a ‘wanna-be’ expert would do is listen to what a proven expert has to say.

I, not being an expert but being a critic have certain questions concerning the construction of this circus such as if will include the single-pass bolted and gasketed as well as the two-pass concrete lining systems and whether it will be utilizing the single-pass concrete segmental lining. You know, those questions that play such an important part in safety as well as expense in the construction of this circus. Speaking of safety reminds me of this article. The accident was a terrible thing and the reality of the situation is that it was avoidable had someone with a little common sense and responsibility had assured that the worker had and or was wearing a hard hat. I as a critic feel bad for what happened and am pretty sure that there are those out there that say, “Accidents will happen and he was a Haitian so what the heck”.

It could very well be that these critics, which are made up of both experts and non-experts, just want to insure that this project is the right thing to do or have already made up their minds that it is the wrong thing to do and wish to point that out before it’s too late. It is because of what the experts have said to date that seems to prove that the critics of this project have all the right in their criticisms which in reality make the ‘wanna-be’ experts stand out as the idiots that they are. The failure to see the truths that have been presented along with the failure to recognize the discrepancies being caused to a nation and its people for the sole purpose of standing behind that which has been criticized by so many boarders on recidivism.

Rick

[aegap]

The problem with a Metro for Santo Domingo isn't that it's not a good idea' it's the way the government has gone about it, which to be seems obviously crimminal in just about every meaning of the word.

You won't hear nearly as many people complain about what Santiago is going for. Santo Domingo, being way bigger than Santiago and having a way larger commuting population could have gone in a similar route ..not addintical -similar.

[Texas Bill]

Originally Posted by Mirador

You got your saying wrong, it should read, "You don't change horses in the middle of a stream".

However, there's another proverb that says, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".

Mirador:

I'm surprised at you. Haven't you seen all those US Westerns where thegu in theWhite hat actually changes horses in orderto continue pursuing the one's in the'Black Hats"???

And you're WRONG when you quote that last proverb. The Dominican Politicians have been doing just that with the Public for the past 50 years.
Every Administration has told the same lies over and over and over and the people still believe them.
The evidence is too overwhelming for contradiction. Sorry, pal, had to speak out on that.

Texas Bill

[Mirador]

Originally Posted by Texas Bill

Mirador:

I'm surprised at you. Haven't you seen all those US Westerns where thegu in theWhite hat actually changes horses in orderto continue pursuing the one's in the'Black Hats"???

And you're WRONG when you quote that last proverb. The Dominican Politicians have been doing just that with the Public for the past 50 years.
Every Administration has told the same lies over and over and over and the people still believe them.
The evidence is too overwhelming for contradiction. Sorry, pal, had to speak out on that.

Texas Bill

ROGL!!! Thanks Texas Bill, I needed that!!!

[NALs]

Rick,

You're believing Osiris de León? Oh please, tell me no!!!!

Rather than writing more words than most people are willing to read, I'll let you answer me one simple question after the following statement:

Osiris mentioned (among the many flawed allegations he has made against the metro) that the reason for why metal support beams were used in the construction of the bridge over the Isabela River which will connect the metro line from Villa Mella to the National District, had to do with a suppose "fact" that the cement columns already installed were "sinking due to their weight".

My questions are the following:

1. Why is a geologist commenting on what essentially is an engineering "problem"?

2. Has he ever seen how arch bridges are built? (Hint: If he have, he wouldn't be making such ridiculous and misleading comment).

3. Why have the metal support columns been removed after the two sections of the arch bridge have been connected?

I already know the answer to these questions, but for the sake of discussion give us what is essentially your opinion, Rick.

-NALs

[Chip00]

Originally Posted by NALs

Rick,

You're believing Osiris de León? Oh please, tell me no!!!!

Rather than writing more words than most people are willing to read, I'll let you answer me one simple question after the following statement:

Osiris mentioned (among the many flawed allegations he has made against the metro) that the reason for why metal support beams were used in the construction of the bridge over the Isabela River which will connect the metro line from Villa Mella to the National District, had to do with a suppose "fact" that the cement columns already installed were "sinking due to their weight".

My questions are the following:

1. Why is a geologist commenting on what essentially is an engineering "problem"?

2. Has he ever seen how arch bridges are built? (Hint: If he have, he wouldn't be making such ridiculous and misleading comment).

3. Why have the metal support columns been removed after the two sections of the arch bridge have been connected?

I already know the answer to these questions, but for the sake of discussion give us what is essentially your opinion, Rick.

-NALs

Nalsy, Nalsy as a Civil Engineer let me help.

#1 structural engineers do their footing(ie foundation) design based on the recommendations of the Geologist or Geotechnical Engineer. It is not the other way around - therefore this guy opinining about the sinking of the cement columns is correct.

#2 Arch bridges have various designs and the "load"(ie bridge, cars, people) can be designed to be accomodated/transfered to the ground in various ways.

#3 As far as the metal support columns being moved it is probably that with the foundation columns now sinking it throws the plans out of whack (ie distances etc. change) The foundations will have to be stabilized or re-estalished before any metal work can commence. In simpler words, if the support columns have sunk one foot the steel will no longer fit perfectly and new sections would have to be made in order that the deck elevations do not deviate. Of course this would be stupid to have to recut a whole lot of steel when that can just stabilize the foundations and put an "adapter" on top of the foundations to get them to the proper elevetion, no doubt to 1/100th of a foot.