Metro will be "cheap" ja ja ja ja

[Frank the Tank]

Today on DR1 News Leonel says that the Metro will be cheap. I now have proof that drug use has permeated Dominican society all the way up to the Presidential Palace. Ay dios mio.

[Rick Snyder]

Frank,

I took the liberty of moving your thread from 'Government' to 'Debates' merely due to the fact that you may get some arguement as to the validity of 'crack heads' walking the corridors of the PALACIO NACIONAL.

Rick

[dv8]

what exactly is "cheap" for leonel?

[Rick Snyder]

From DR1 news today;

"President Leonel Fernandez is standing firmly behind the idea that the Santo Domingo metro will cost US$550 million and said that it would be one of the cheapest metros in the world. Fernandez also said that with bonuses contracted by former President Hipolito Mejia for US$1.1 billion, the country would be able to build three metro lines. Fernandez also justified the metro project by saying that Santo Domingo's population is set to grow to more than six million in the next 20 years."

Rick

[Mirador]

What is President Fernández referring to when he says "cheap". Is it the fare? Iv'e heard several figures regarding the estimated operational cost per passenger to travel on the DR metro, and they range between 100 to 140 pesos. If the metro is to compete with current public transportation (buses and conchos), then the fare cannot be higher than 25 pesos. If the government has to subsidize the operational cost, and the metro is designed to transport about 35,000 passengers/day, taking the minimum estimated operational cost of 100 pesos/passenger, then we're talking about a direct government subsidy of over 2.5 million pesos per day, or almost 1000 million pesos per year. Now, does that sound cheap?!!!!

[Conchman]

Originally Posted by Mirador

What is President Fernández referring to when he says "cheap". Is it the fare? Iv'e heard several figures regarding the estimated operational cost per passenger to travel on the DR metro, and they range between 100 to 140 pesos. If the metro is to compete with current public transportation (buses and conchos), then the fare cannot be higher than 25 pesos. If the government has to subsidize the operational cost, and the metro is designed to transport about 35,000 passengers/day, taking the minimum estimated operational cost of 100 pesos/passenger, then we're talking about a direct government subsidy of over 2.5 million pesos per day, or almost 1000 million pesos per year. Now, does that sound cheap?!!!!

Its probably gonna cost even more than that, once you figure in the investment/capital/interest costs.

[NALs]

There's more to the story than has been presented on DR1.

Leonel is making a comparison between the projected cost for the SD metro vs. the cost of other similar metros elsewhere. Leonel compared the costs of Puerto Rico's metro at over $3 billion with SDQ's metro's cost at $550 million despite similarities in length and other factors; in that sense the metro's total cost for the initial line is cheap, could possibly be the cheapest in the world although I'm not sure on that. But for certain, its cheaper than $3 billion for one line.

Also, he mentioned how members of the opposition (principally PRD) who once criticized him for building the tunnels and expressways during his first term, once the PRD was in power they promised to build an expressway in Villa Mella but it didn't materialized. Thus, not only did the opposition (who often tend to be the critics as well) contradicted themselves by promising to build the very same thing they were rejecting and criticizing during Leonel's first term, but they couldn't even built what they said they would despite the loans made for such project.

The following are quotes from the news article on Hoy newspaper:

"El gobierno invertirá alrededor de US$550 millones en la construcción del Metro de Santo Domingo..."

"...el Metro de Puerto Rico costó US$3,500 millones, y su extensión es la misma que tendrá el de Santo Domingo, que es de 16 kilómetros."

"El mandatario dijo que los opositores de la obra pronosticaron que con la misma se desestabilizaría la economía dominicana, pero no ha sido así porque ésta ha seguido funcionando con solidez, estabilidad y crecimiento."

" 'El pasado gobierno, cuando era oposición, criticaba la construcción de túneles y elevados, y cuando llegaron querían hacer un elevado desde Villa Mella a la avenida San Martín pero fracasaron, y en esa misma vía se levanta el metro, es un problema de ser eficiente o no.' "

" 'Hablaron de construir un tren de Haina a Santiago y no lo hubo, pero nosotros lo que decimos lo hacemos, somos eficientes.' "

Click on the link to read the full story:

Gobierno estima el Metro costará US$550 millones

-NALs

[Rick Snyder]

The SD Metro has been projected to have a daily ridership of about 200,000 people. The problem with this figure is that from all metros throughout the world the proposed ridership has always been at least 33% to 55% above the reality of ridership once a system is operational.

The SD Metro will operate in what I consider amounts to a perpetual budget crisis if a person is to look at all other public transportation projects throughout the world. And when you factor in the Dominican way of doing things it is readily conceivable that a budget crisis will and must ensue. The costs to build and operate this metro will rise faster than revenues, and budgets will have to be balanced by fare increases. Needless to say increased fares always leads to reduced ridership.

With the projected growth in SD that the president mentions the idea of increased ridership is only a pipe dream if the people can’t afford a ticket without subsidization. If subsidization is the end means, which I have no doubt will be required, then the people are faced with the same problems as those found in the LP gas and electricity sectors not to mention the proposed subsidies being demanded in the present public transportation sector.

In addition I think it is interesting to note the wheeling and dealing being done in the present court case concerning the ‘freedom of information’ law as it relates to the release of the prior study plans of the metro. The position that LF took on that issue was a direct quote out of the GW Bush manual on ‘How to screw the people in the name of security’.

This project along with almost everything else attempted in this country will end up as being a very painful endeavor for the Dominican people. If the government had any sense at all they would hand out jars of Vaseline to facilitate that the people didn’t hurt so terribly much.

Rick

As a side note;

You may notice the out of country construction expert notating Dominican news articles but those of us in the know seem to have a proven acceptance to such reports for their real value or lack thereof. Regardless of that fact there is the word “estima” that jumps up at me and transports me back to the prices forecasted for other such projects around the world and things like bridges here in this country.

[Criss Colon]

Not only will the true costs never be revealed,the entire country will be forever subsidising the few who will actually ride the thing! The costs will never be revealed,#1 because then we would know how much for the "Metro",and how much for "Yepetas"! # 2,because the actual amount spent for consruction will be many times 550 million US $, and # 3,because the government NEVER tells the people ANYTHING!
Just as the 2 Billion US $ spent on the bailout of the RICH who lost money in the Baniter fiasco took the wind out of the Dominican economy a few years ago,the "Metro" will do the same over the next decade. Baniter was over after the payoffs were made. The "METRO" will be the ,"Gift That Keeps On "Taking" long into the future. Maybe the DR can use the tunnel to grow mushrooms when the trains stop running! (Assuming the ever start runnung)More likely it will be used for "low cost" housing!
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Anyone want to wager weather "L" takes the first ride in Feb. 2008 as he stated this years????????????

[Mirador]

Originally Posted by Criss Colon

.... Anyone want to wager weather "L" takes the first ride in Feb. 2008 as he stated this years????????????

It is vox populi that "L" will resign immediately upon loosing the primaries tomorrow to Danilo Medina, and will leave the presidency to the Vice President, Rafaelito Alburquerque...