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  #11  
Old 05-18-2007, 02:54 PM
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As a matter of fact the Inquisition as a process of keeping the Faith pure (and for making people toe the line) was not all that widely used in the Americas. If I remember correctly, there was only one Indian actually put to death under its stipulations--death without blood = at the stake!

If you ever get to watch the movie Name of the Rose with Sean Connery (Book by Humberto Eco), you get a feel for the process. Also the book Montayou (sp?) about the Albigensian Heresy and the Inquisition in late 13th Century France is interesting reading.

Of course, during the Middle Ages and into the Renaissance the "Santo Oficio" was used to coerce, nudge, or outright force obedience to an institution that was more and more interested in temporal matters rather than spiritual matters. If you read Barbara Tuchman's history of the 14th Century you will get a good idea of what went on.

All told, I think you really have to look at the institution, the times and the Church and realize that it was a time of deep superstition, iron-clad tradition and fear of absolutely anything approaching free thinking. No maps, no roads, not much future beyond the very immediate vicinity of where you were born.

In Chaucer's Canterbury Tales he talks of the Wife of Bath that visited the Holy Land a number of times, an incredible feat in the 14th Century...Most people never ventured more than 20 kilometers from their birthplace, and most places had no names...just imagine trying to get back to "that place near the big oak tree that belongs to Sir Gerhart! A truly scary time those Middle Ages..

There can be no doubt that the Inquisition was a terrible institution, used initially to correct errors in doctrine, but also used for more dirty ends.

Always interesting. Here on the island of Hispañola, it was practically non-existent. You can consult works by Fernando Pérez Memen on this.
After all, there were so few people here, there was not that much of a Church, either....and so, few possibilities to cross dogmatical swords with a prelate....maybe had something to do with the lifestyle of the times.

HB
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2007, 03:05 PM
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After seeing Apocalypto, I am glad the Catholics came to evangelize the Americas...
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2007, 03:46 PM
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Very very interesting stuff......there's so much to read.

Quote:
As a matter of fact the Inquisition as a process of keeping the Faith pure (and for making people toe the line) was not all that widely used in the Americas. If I remember correctly, there was only one Indian actually put to death under its stipulations--death without blood = at the stake!
Yes I read that the "Inquisidores" had no jurisdiction over the Indians but that they were evangelizing (sp.) them.

In 1570 A "Tribunal" was established in Lima, Peru that had jurisdiction over Panamá, Quito, el Cuzco, Los Charcas, Río de la Plata, Tucumán, Concepción, Santiago de Chile and all the provinces of Perú. Their main purpose to erradicate any new christians, jews and protestants.

So it seems that Christopher Columbus might have been a New Christian (converted from another religion) and he wasn't that all interested in establishing the "Inquisition" or using those methods to bring in the Catholic Faith.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.R. View Post
So it seems that Christopher Columbus might have been a New Christian (converted from another religion) and he wasn't that all interested in establishing the "Inquisition" or using those methods to bring in the Catholic Faith.
Haven't you heard of the zeal of the converted?
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirimoya View Post
Haven't you heard of the zeal of the converted?
No Senora, could you tell me about it.
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2007, 04:41 PM
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In general, the zeal of the converted refers to the fact that people who convert to a different religion (political philosophy, or whatever) end up being more devoted than people who were born into the religion, because they feel they have to prove themselves, or because they converted due to conviction and had therefore thought things out more deeply and passionately than someone who just happened to be born into it.

In the case of the Jews who converted to Catholicism during that historical period (known as "new Christians", "conversos" or "marranos") some converts were definitely more sincere than others, ranging from the ones who had only converted on the outside, keeping on their Jewish traditions behind closed doors, to the "more Catholic than the Pope" variety.

I think Columbus was more likely to have been the latter, if indeed the theories about him being a "new Christian" have any foundation.
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  #17  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:02 PM
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Like others who already replied, I was aware of the presence of the Inquisition in the much larger viceroyalties of Lima (PERU) and Mexico (NEW SPAIN) and the one from Cartagena de Indias, but logic would dictate that -like almost everything else coming from Spain during the early conquest and colonization - it first must've landed in Hispaniola before maturing as an institution elsewhere in the empire.

I found these two Spanish language sites that are highly suggestive to me that this was indeed the case:

1. on a Mexican site:
En América, el Tribunal del Santo Oficio se estableció por primera vez en la isla de Santo Domingo, llamada en ese entonces La Española, gracias a que el cardenal Adrián de Utrech, regente del reino e inquisidor general de España, extendió el nombramiento de inquisidor de todas las tierras descubiertas y a descubrir a don Pedro de Córdoba, residente de dominicana.

My amateur translation of the above paragraph for the non-Spanish readers:

In the Americas, the Tribunal of the Holy Office was first established in the island of Santo Domingo, known as La Española during that time, by the Cardinal Adrian of Utrecht, regent of the kingdom and General Inquisitor of Spain, whom granted to don Pedro de Córdoba, a resident of the dominican island, as Inquisitor of all the lands discovered and those yet to be discovered.

Source- Mexico Desconocido: siglo xviii La Inquisición

This Adrian guy, later on became Pope and in fact was the last of the non-Italians until the very recent John Paul II.

2. This Spanish language Catholic encyclopedia webpage that tells us a bit more about señor Don Pedro de Córdoba, 1st Inquistor of the Americas;

Enciclopedia Católica

So from the above we can gather that the first inquisitor came to Hispaniola but that the first organized tribunals came much later to the urban capitals of Nueva España, Peru and Nueva Granada.

Other sources state that the Inquisition was not as powerful or devious in the American colonies as in its Iberian variant.

To this day, everything we do in Latin America is invariably a tropicalized version of somebody else's rules and doctrines. Even the evil things we do half-heartedly.

- Tordok
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  #18  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:58 PM
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Thanks Tordok very good info.

It reminds me of the stories I hear about the police tactics of confession used in mexico, probably taken from the Inquisition?
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  #19  
Old 05-27-2007, 11:22 PM
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I know the Inquisition did go to work in Mexico, condemning several persons to death. These were New Christians who were charged with "judeizar" or going back to Jewish practices. Some others were found guilty of witchcraft, according to what I have read. Few other cases took place in the Americas. The Inquisition of Holy Office also operated in Cuba, but I am not aware of anyone having being convicted of anything or sentenced to death. Well, now that I remember, there was a monk surnamed Pimienta who had to leave the island because he went back to Judaism. He then returned to Cuba, where he was apprehended and sent to Spain. Not sure about his fate.
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.R. View Post
ok Mirador, well what I wanted to know is about the DR, were these tortures and persecutions performed in the DR?
I'm not really sure of how active the inquistion was on the island, but Albert Hicks discusses the torture devices left behind by the Spanish in his anti-Trujillo book, Blood in the Streets. He claims that Trujillo had several of the torture devices reconditioned and used them on his political opponents in the 1930's. So, according to Hicks, it appears the inquistion was actively torturing people on this island.

I read in another book that Trujillo also used a torture chair device left behind by American Marines. It had been used by the Americans to torture Dominican rebels during the occupation. Trujillo would sometimes display it in a museum when one of his anti-American moods struck (that is when he wasn't using it himself).

Last edited by Ogre of the Caribbean; 05-30-2007 at 05:42 AM.
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