Embraer Deal. No, not that Lie. The other lie.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Texas Bill

PS: NALS, what is you comment? You're always trying to justify what the guvmnt here does.

I don't always try to justify what the government does, but I do defend them when I think people are being too cynical in their speculations about such, especially if I don't see any evidence to whatever is being cynically speculated upon by people on these boards.

Concerning the topic at hand, I only have news articles and I tend to make judgements on topics based on concrete information, not on mere speculation based on news articles.

-NALs

[aegap]

Much as one needs to learn how to crawl befoce one can run, a military pilots needs to fly a trainer fighter (eg. super tucano, T-6 Texan II ) before he can fly a true jet fighter (e.g. F-16, F-14 Tomcat)

Try as I might, I couldn't find the original source of the following assertion. Caveat out of the way, here it is:

"In May of 2007 the U.S announced that it will donate 8 F-14D Tomcat to the Dominican Air force with parts and maintenance included in the contract. The U.S has the authority to retrieve the aircrafts if contract is breeched."

(The F-14 Tomcat is the famous fighter Tom Cruise flies in the famous movie flown titled "Top Gun.")

The real deal:

F-14 Dogfight

..the real real deal

american F14 and libyan Mig23 engagement.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

hopefully ,they will leave the bombs and air to air missles off this plane and just use the 12.7 machine gun. can you envision bombs and missiles falling on tourists and locals ?

The 12.7's are equally as bad, and many more of them. I doubt engage would be over land.

[IslandDreaming]

Originally Posted by aegap

Much as one needs to learn how to crawl befoce one can run, a military pilots needs to fly a trainer fighter (eg. super tucano, T-6 Texan II ) before he can fly a true jet fighter (e.g. F-16, F-14 Tomcat)

Try as I might, I couldn't find the original source of the following assertion. Caveat out of the way, here it is:

"In May of 2007 the U.S announced that it will donate 8 F-14D Tomcat to the Dominican Air force with parts and maintenance included in the contract. The U.S has the authority to retrieve the aircrafts if contract is breeched."

(The F-14 Tomcat is the famous fighter Tom Cruise flies in the famous movie flown titled "Top Gun.")

The real deal:

F-14 Dogfight

..the real real deal

american F14 and libyan Mig23 engagement.

You watch too many movies and surf the net for your "facts"

US was going to "donate" the 14's in May 2007? Coincidental the last 14 was retired from the fleet that month????? You want our junk that is too expensive for the USA to fly?

The MD F-14 was never designed as a "fighter," it was a Fleet Defense bird tasked with just that. It is heavy, dirty and offers a huge target for "dogfighting," Tom Cruise and Harm Rhabs exploits non withstanding

The 14 was not even designed as an airplane but a platform to carry the Phoenix system to deter BVR threats during a nuclear attack

To even consider the DR flying the 14 is insane, 23 plus hours of maintenance for each flight hour and that is using top notch USN techs. Taxing to the end of the runway (Forgot about installing arrest or systems or 14000' runways for this bird) would increase the national debt 10% from fuel expenditure alone

The US navy retired the old girl for just that reason

You really enjoy MS Flight Sim I guess :-)

The Tucanos are the ideal plane for what the DR needs, with proper CGI it can track, engage and counter any drug threat and provide a tremendous CI asset,

The Vampires won't fly (I have looked at them, I doubt you could get scrap prices for them and I pity the pilot who lights one up)

The Tucano is light years ahead of the old P 51 D Mustang and that plane shot down early jets (Which were more capable them some of the Biz Jets a few druggies own) so don't think because it has a spinner out front it can't engage light civilian aircraft.

IF the DR had to go to Jets, the F 5 Freedom fighter would serve all purposes from CI to Air Defense at minimal cost, or the British Goshawk would perform equally well, especially with two on the flight deck

Sorry to ramble, but after a while "Armchair" pilots get frustrating :-) BTW, I think "Jet Pilot" is on AMC tonight :-)

Google, Movies and rumors do not a pilot make

Hop over to the Ukraine with 12,000 and see what being in a real plane is all about

And whoever commented about the 12mm's is correct, I would rather be bombed than have a "Buck fever" pilot with his finger on the .50 button tearing up half the island

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by IslandDreaming

To even consider the DR flying the 14 is insane, 23 plus hours of maintenance for each flight hour and that is using top notch USN techs. Taxing to the end of the runway (Forgot about installing arrest or systems or 14000' runways for this bird) would increase the national debt 10% from fuel expenditure alone

Parts and maintenance is included.

I agree with most of what you say. But I suspect the F-14's are not for drug interdiction. I suspect they are a not-so-subtle warning to the "neighbor" to the south, the mere mention of whom could get this thread closed. Seems that the arrival of the Su-30's down "there" is a concern to some...

I had a fuel contract for several ANG groups in the US. I've squirted a few gallons into various fast iron, F-14's, 15's, 16's, A-10's, and T-38's included. They had no problem operating out of the field's 8500' runway at PIE.

[aegap]

I wouldn't be surpriced if the U.S offer them, but DR isn't in need of that capability so I would hope they would turn them down. unless the jet fuel is also included with the maintenance package ;-)

Originally Posted by IslandDreaming

The Tucanos are the ideal plane for what the DR needs, with proper CGI it can track, engage and counter any drug threat and provide a tremendous CI asset,
..

The Tucano is light years ahead of the old P 51 D Mustang and that plane shot down early jets (Which were more capable them some of the Biz Jets a few druggies own) so don't think because it has a spinner out front it can't engage light civilian aircraft.

and as importan : they are relative easy and cheap to upkeep.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by aegap

I wouldn't be surpriced if the U.S offer them, but DR isn't in need of that capability so I would hope they would turn them down. unless the jet fuel is also included with the maintenance package ;-)

There is a subtle irony in F-14's in the DR using Venezuelan Jet A against the Venezuelan Su-30's...

[IslandDreaming]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

Parts and maintenance is included.


I had a fuel contract for several ANG groups in the US. I\'ve squirted a few gallons into various fast iron, F-14\'s, 15\'s, 16\'s, A-10\'s, and T-38\'s included. They had no problem operating out of the field\'s 8500\' runway at PIE.

Interesting that the Air National Guard is operating Navy or Marine 14\'s out of a 4000\' strip (Unless they stretched PIE in the past 3 months)

Why would the ANG use PIE when McDill is 9 miles away?

As for \"Parts and maintenance included,\" that is an interesting comment since the 14 is deactivated, no other service in the world operates it (sans Iran) and Grumman no longer supports them???? Do they grt parts at Wally World?

As to fueling 14\'s with \"jet A,\" that would have been the end of them as even being refueled during emergency in flight situations with Air Force JP 8 restricts the 14 from being hangered below decks until the system is completely flushed, Jet A has a much lower flashpoint and would NEVER be \"squirted\" into a 14.

\"Hey Goose, you OK back there\" Harm, your making me sick says the flight qualified \"Mac\" Sheesh, give me a break

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Is the Dominican Republic allowed to shoot down planes carrying drugs? What does International Law say about it?

How does the DR plane to use these planes?

Does anyone know what type of armament these planes will have?

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by IslandDreaming

Interesting that the Air National Guard is operating Navy or Marine 14\'s out of a 4000\' strip (Unless they stretched PIE in the past 3 months)

Why would the ANG use PIE when McDill is 9 miles away?

As for \"Parts and maintenance included,\" that is an interesting comment since the 14 is deactivated, no other service in the world operates it (sans Iran) and Grumman no longer supports them???? Do they grt parts at Wally World?

As to fueling 14\'s with \"jet A,\" that would have been the end of them as even being refueled during emergency in flight situations with Air Force JP 8 restricts the 14 from being hangered below decks until the system is completely flushed, Jet A has a much lower flashpoint and would NEVER be \"squirted\" into a 14.

\"Hey Goose, you OK back there\" Harm, your making me sick says the flight qualified \"Mac\" Sheesh, give me a break

PIE has 3 runways. 17/35 was 8500' when I was there. It's now been extended to 10,000'. 4/22 and 9/27 are much shorter, perhaps that is where you got bad info. I owned a substantial FBO on the field for a number of years until it was sold to Signature. I used "Jet-A" as a generic for JP8. I bought it from the USCG station on the field, per contract terms.

Why don't they go to McDill? I don't know. All I know is I bid and got a government contract to refuel some birds every two years; no doubt they are public record, go look it up. I made a whopping $.05 to "squirt" it. "Squirt" is industry slang; obviously you are an industry outsider. The ANG usually came in on weekends on training missions.

The offer by the US is 14's WITH parts and maintenance included. Do some research. Where they get parts, I don't know, don't care, I'm just reporting the deal.

Additionally, I am a pilot with multiple ratings, with some turbine time.