Embraer Deal. No, not that Lie. The other lie.

[cobraboy]

Many of the Navy jets came from the NAS-Pensacola on training.

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Are there any other modern propeller driven fighter planes being built today besides this Brazillian one? What do they cost? The plane might be the best option for the DR airforce afterall.

[Texas Bill]

[quote=NALs;532654]I don't always try to justify what the government does, but I do defend them when I think people are being too cynical in their speculations about such, especially if I don't see any evidence to whatever is being cynically speculated upon by people on these boards.

Concerning the topic at hand, I only have news articles and I tend to make judgements on topics based on concrete information, not on mere speculation based on news articles.

-NALs[/QUOTNals:

Would you clasify the performance statement about the Ratheon aircraft as compared to the Brazilian one as "cynical speculation"? If so, wherein does the cynicism lie?
The Ratheon aircraft sells for US$6 million per copy, including apares, as does the Brazilian Super Tucano. I also point out that the performance numbers of the Ratheon aircraft far surpasses those of the Super Tucano. Wouldn't it follow that the former would have been a "better buy" than the latter? I fail to detect any cynicism in that event, unless it is that the DR is being charged US$ 3.3 million per copy more than the worldwide quoted price for the Super Tucano. So, i rightfully ask the question; Where is the extra US$ 26++million going to end up. It is the DR Peoples money Leonel is spending, pal and some of it is mine since I pay taxes here also. I think I have every right to question huge purchases such as this where the bottom line is VERY SUSPECT. Do you have an argument with that??
I also "cynically" bring up the point that the overall contract was not let for competitve bid to the industrial world. Wouldn't you view athat as a bit odd, since Leonel has touted "openness and transparancy" in all govrnment bids and purchases? How does one rationalize out of that scenario? HUMMMM?
This isn't the only obvious evidence of backsliding by Leonel, Nals. You read the papers and keep up with current events the same as all of us do, so open your eyes as to what has and is taking place in this government. It ain't all "openness and transparancy" like they say.

Texas Bill

[IslandDreaming]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

PIE has 3 runways. 17/35 was 8500' when I was there. It's now been extended to 10,000'. 4/22 and 9/27 are much shorter, perhaps that is where you got bad info. I owned a substantial FBO on the field for a number of years until it was sold to Signature. I used "Jet-A" as a generic for JP8. I bought it from the USCG station on the field, per contract terms.

Why don't they go to McDill? I don't know. All I know is I bid and got a government contract to refuel some birds every two years; no doubt they are public record, go look it up. I made a whopping $.05 to "squirt" it. "Squirt" is industry slang; obviously you are an industry outsider. The ANG usually came in on weekends on training missions.

The offer by the US is 14's WITH parts and maintenance included. Do some research. Where they get parts, I don't know, don't care, I'm just reporting the deal.

Additionally, I am a pilot with multiple ratings, with some turbine time.

"Industry outsider," you might say that when it comes to fueling, but if a Purple shirt tried putting JP 8 or as you call it "Jet A" in my bird I would have shot him

Some men talk, some men do, no big deal

Maybe you could be of some help and contact the AOPA and get them to rewrite their guide concerning PIE, Jeppsom needs updating on their charts also, or maybe.....

Some turbine time means? How many hours in multi engine Mach 2 birds?

Maybe you could reference that famous article about the US selling or even proposing the sale of the Tomcats, I know a lot of guys with names in the Blue Book who would find in immeasurably amusing


Have you ever in your twin turbine time "splashed" a spinner with yoru jet wash, I hear it is done all the time :-)

In Final Countdown, right? I forgot , you know of people who know of people that fly Falcons and Gulfstreams that perfform this feat for Customs everyday

No offense buddy, but yoru stories are just a little "deep" and lacking in certain little details that only someone who has been there would know. Real easy to find anecdotal stories on the net, read specs and "Sea stories," but you will never be an insider unless you have actually shot and trapped Haze Gray and underway

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by IslandDreaming

Some turbine time means? How many hours in multi engine Mach 2 birds?

Mach 2? None. A little B90 and CJ1 right seat time. Not much compared to a "real" pilot, but waaaay more than 99.999% of the population. Owning a Part 141 flight school and FBO got me a lot of interesting rides, and a few odd hours here and there.

Originally Posted by IslandDreaming

Maybe you could reference that famous article about the US selling or even proposing the sale of the Tomcats, I know a lot of guys with names in the Blue Book who would find in immeasurably amusing

It was referenced in this thread. You missed it? It came from Wiki:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In May of 2007 the U.S announced that it will donate 8 F-14D Tomcat to the Dominican Air force with parts and maintenance included in the contract. The U.S has the authority to retrieve the aircrafts if contract is breeched. The Dominican Air force has also announced the purchase of tridimensional radar that will help the Air Force track down illegal aircraft entering Dominican air space to drop drug cargos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ft_inventory_2

Maybe Wiki is in your Blue Book, ID...

Originally Posted by IslandDreaming

Have you ever in your twin turbine time "splashed" a spinner with yoru jet wash, I hear it is done all the time :-)

Nope. I didn't say I did. The CG guys said they have done that in their older G's on drug interdiction flights. The USCG has a major station at PIE. But you knew that, right? But you know how it is when a bunch of hotshot pilots get together over a few pitchers of beer: can't believe a word they say...

No offense, buddy, but I never claimed to be military. I do claim to having been in the aviation industry for quite a while on the business side, made some good friends, flown a few planes, and have a few hours, ratings and endorsements in my logbook.

And maybe these guys should give Jeppeson a call: AirNav: KPIE - St Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport . I don't know how Jepp could have missed it, do you? I was more of a NOAA guy anyway. Too many pages to mess with with Jepp updates. Well, in the days before electronic charts, anyway.

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Could either one of you tell me if any other country builds propeller driven fighter planes like Brazil?

What are the fuel costs for the Brazillain prop plane compared to a Vampire fighter jet?

What does it cost to maintain one of these Brazillain prop planes(per year)?

I'll take rough estimates.

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Besides the stated price for these planes, you also have to look at the financing arrangement to pay for them. I would bet that there's plenty of extra cash to pay for kickbacks hidden in there.

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Originally Posted by Texas Bill

This isn't the only obvious evidence of backsliding by Leonel... It ain't all "openness and transparancy" like they say.

Texas Bill

This government has been very open!!!

The DR absolutely needs those planes ASAP, so there's no time to wait for bids. They also need to buy more buses from Brazil because the ones that were previously bought feel lonely and need company as they sit in a lot. In addition, this new bus deal needs to be overseen by the same crooks that oversaw the first round (Plan RENOVE), because all the money that they stole was already spent partying, wining and dining expensive putas, and on fancy jeepetas. Oh, and Huchi Lora got all the documents that he requested from Leonel's boy, Diandino, and Franklin Almeyda got a great deal on those Harleys too!

[Texas Bill]

Originally Posted by Ogre of the Caribbean

Could either one of you tell me if any other country builds propeller driven fighter planes like Brazil?

What are the fuel costs for the Brazillain prop plane compared to a Vampire fighter jet?

What does it cost to maintain one of these Brazillain prop planes(per year)?

I'll take rough estimates.

The aircraft under purchase by the DR is PRIMARILY a TRAINER modified for "LIGHT GROUND ATTACK" MISSIONS. it is NOT a Fighter in the true sense of the word. Aircraft of this military nature can be modified for almost any Military purpose---It's the nature of the beast, but most aren't equipped with self-sealing tanks, thus suseptable to air-to-air and ground-to-air fire.

Here is the list of countries you asked for:

Switzerland
Brazil
USA
Italy
France
Israel
amoung others of minimal significance.

Do a Google search on "turbo-prop trainers/fighters" to satisfy your curiosity.

There is a very great big world out there in aviation and the competition is fierce.

Texas Bill

[aegap]

Originally Posted by Texas Bill

The aircraft under purchase by the DR is PRIMARILY a TRAINER modified for "LIGHT GROUND ATTACK" MISSIONS. it is NOT a Fighter in the true sense of the word. Aircraft of this military nature can be modified for almost any Military purpose---It's the nature of the beast, but most aren't equipped with self-sealing tanks, thus suseptable to air-to-air and ground-to-air fire.
Texas Bill

TX, the Super Tucano is actually more purposed built as a light attack plane than it is as a trainer. It would be considered a trainer in a first world country able to easily afford the pure jets and all that it takes to upkeep them. It's the perfect attack plane for a country like DR, which really doesn't have any military threat and must only really concern itself with the small drug runners (both in the air and on the sea).