Embraer Deal. No, not that Lie. The other lie.

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

The Diario Libre article, in criticising the purchase of new Braslian Super Tucano "fighters", misses the real point. The jist of the article is that pockets are being lined (shocking!) and that the FAD should refurbish the existing, long out-of-service, fleet (4 aircraft, though not all may be salvagable) of Cessna Dragonfly "fighters", an aircraft dating to the early years of the Vietnam War. Assuming that these obsolete aircraft still exist in any workable form, that they can be refurbished and maintained at a reasonable cost, and that 4 of them are enough, the fact remains that NEITHER THE DRAGONFLIES, NOR THE SUPER TUCANOS, ARE "FIGHTER" AIRCRAFT AT ALL. THEY ARE, BY DESIGN, COUNTER-INSURGENCY/GROUND ATTACK AIRCRAFT. And they are both competent at the task.

But that's not the task that we have been lead to believe they perform. We are told that these aircraft are to be used for drugs and customs intradiction - for which they are both ill suited. So, the bigger question should be: Why does the FAD feel it needs new counter-insurgency aircraft?

[Hillbilly]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$

Maybe????

I understand that other offers are on the table



HB

[Robert]

I hear they also wanted them fitted with diesel engines
That way they could strip parts from the junk Ford cars the National Police purchased.

It's not about if they are good or bad, it's about who is paying the highest kick back.

The only way the outcome will change, is if someone is made to look stupid or someone gets upset that they didn't get a cut.

[Criss Colon]

They bought all those busses that are now sitting in the maintenance yard from Brazil a few years ago!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCCcc

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Robert is right on point on this one. It's just another scheme for some government official(s) to steal money, and the option that generates the biggest payday for the crooks is the winner.

Like the older planes, these new ones will sit somewhere and eventualy become a pile of junk way before they should, because nobody will bother to adecuately use or maintain them.Typical DR!!!

[aegap]

Guess what Colombia uses it for?


With American help and using a Brazilian Super Tucano against drug smugglers over the Amazon jungle.
LiveLeak.com - Airplane shot down in Colombia

[aegap]

That's the T-27 Tucano above (produced in the '80s). DR got the more modern and completely redesigned version (the Super Tucano) that was produced starting in ~2000.

[cobraboy]

All corruption aside, either plane is adequate for simple drug interdiction: vector, follow, film and support. They will stay with about anything short of a bizjet, and have adequate range for the mission. You don't need fighters or serious kerosene burners to keep up with a C210, Seneca, Aztec or old Baron/Queenair.

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

All corruption aside, either plane is adequate for simple drug interdiction: vector, follow, film and support. They will stay with about anything short of a bizjet, and have adequate range for the mission. You don't need fighters or serious kerosene burners to keep up with a C210, Seneca, Aztec or old Baron/Queenair.

True, the Super Tucano can outrun and climb the piston aircraft you mention - provided it had good advance lead time to catch up to them over relatively small Dominican territory. But it would have a hard time catching to a turboprop Kingair, and couldn't outrun a turboprop Pilatus or Piaggio at all. And, of course, forget about catching any jet.

I'm not completely critical about the purchase or, more to the point, I'm at least at odds with those who think refurbishing the Dragonflies makes sense. The Dragonflies could not be refurbed and/or operated at a reasonable cost. They burn jetfuel like mad, and all replacement parts would have to be custom manufactured for the obsolete planes. Downtime would be excessive.

Would it be a blessing or a curse to put more expensive, faster and powerful warplanes in the hands of the FAD - especially given the stated mission of drug interdiction?

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Porfio_Rubirosa

True, the Super Tucano can outrun and climb the piston aircraft you mention - provided it had good advance lead time to catch up to them over relatively small Dominican territory. But it would have a hard time catching to a turboprop Kingair, and couldn't outrun a turboprop Pilatus or Piaggio at all. And, of course, forget about catching any jet.

I'm not completely critical about the purchase or, more to the point, I'm at least at odds with those who think refurbishing the Dragonflies makes sense. The Dragonflies could not be refurbed and/or operated at a reasonable cost. They burn jetfuel like mad, and all replacement parts would have to be custom manufactured for the obsolete planes. Downtime would be excessive.

Would it be a blessing or a curse to put more expensive, faster and powerful warplanes in the hands of the FAD - especially given the stated mission of drug interdiction?

I agree. The King Airs, Piaggio's, Pilatus and TBM's are pretty much rich guy planes and need real airfiends MOL. They need to get into higher altitudes to be efficient and safe and thus into radar coverage-the smugglers enemy. Handling a King, going fast at low altitudes is a handful ( I have a couple hours in an A90), and none do bad fields that well (except maybe the Pilatus).

I considered selling my old C182 for a T210 to fly to the DR. My insurance company said they would not cover it or a 206 out of the country because of theft for drug running; they can carry a big load down low, and land on a short, rotten field.

If they REALLY wanted fast, cheap drug chasers, there are a ton of Sabreliners out there with Stage I engines.

My comments are about how those planes ~could~ be used somewhat effectively if they HAD to. But, obviously, there is more to the story.