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Thread: Recession of 2008 and impact on the DR

  1. #2991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onions/Carrots View Post
    PC

    I wonder if Pichardo will admit this or will he spin it as the fuel shortages being implemented by the gov't by design to ensure an orderly delivery of fuel to all parties. Or maybe the shortages were part of a plan to create environmental awareness for the DR populace in order to protect certain habitats that during THAT time needed extra care as in deference to today those environmental sites are already totally protected. So in fact the fuel shortages were not as a result of not having the money to purchase fuel but in fact was part of greater plan in the grand Dominican scheme of things.

    PickAs stupid as Venezuela has been acting, they might very well continue to give away oil for nothing even when Chavez kicks the bucket.
    O&C:

    I fully expect a Pichardo like spin with a re-post of those windmill, solar and biomass pictures. Given the pressure now being put on the D.R. by the IMF, the current worldwide economic crisis, and either a Mejia election or Chavez' death...or both, the makings of a perfect economic storm are currently in place for the D.R. Things may be vastly different for the D.R. in another year.


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2

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    Playa; During the first gulf war it was hard to get fuel,I had to park the car and do cabs, they would chase gas stations and had intell on next delivery.The excuse was the gulf problems but spins do take place. This days with all this new, found affluence and the abundance of jeepetas we have a much higher consumption and astronomical fuel bills.
    The problem is very real and unavoidable, tyrants leave havoc at their demise and their new leaders wont be able to continue squandering so much wealth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by playacaribe2 View Post
    O&C:

    I fully expect a Pichardo like spin with a re-post of those windmill, solar and biomass pictures. Given the pressure now being put on the D.R. by the IMF, the current worldwide economic crisis, and either a Mejia election or Chavez' death...or both, the makings of a perfect economic storm are currently in place for the D.R. Things may be vastly different for the D.R. in another year.


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2
    So... After going and going since the thread started (when?) now we must just wait one more year to see all your prophetic Doom and Gloom visioned for the DR economy??!!!! Good! Because 2012 is about to start and you say it will be the worst for the DR and I say NOT!...

    Let the times roll once again!!!!
    One Dominican at a time please!


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    Quote Originally Posted by playacaribe2 View Post
    Pichardo:

    Perhaps you have not heard of the "Berry Amendment" as it relates to supplying our armed forces. Current uniforms are made in the U.S., many/most in Georgia.

    As an aside, I wish my fellow veterans a peaceful Veterans Day.


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2
    You may want to visit a FTZ company in the DR that's engaged in manufacturing uniforms and gear for the US military. What you didn't know is that final stitch is done in the U.S. as regulation imply but 99% of the work is done HERE already!
    They get the materials sourced from the U.S. and only labor is partial of the manufacturing process.

    Best regards to all those men and women in Veterans Day as well!
    One Dominican at a time please!


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    Quote Originally Posted by playacaribe2 View Post


    Pichardo:

    Yes, there is a contract alright. Actually it's a series of contracts each time oil is delivered. For that, you have a complicated scheme of payments stretching out over 25 years from each delivery. Now if you go back in this thread and see that you owe 2 billion and pay 57 million annually the payback period works out to about those 25 years. The problem is you keep importing more oil and adding to the minimum payment on the Chavez credit card until you reach the point where you will not be able to make even the minimum payment, but I digress.

    So, if Venezuela stopped delivering oil or you stopped importing it, you would still owe the prior balance under those terms already agreed to. You would not be absolved of the duties as contracted.....and I think you know this.

    As to " just buy oil elsewhere with the now upgraded refinery able to handle the national demand 100% unlike before," there are two problems with that statement...1) from whom and how will you pay, 2) you DO NOT have the refining capacity to meet the demand.

    We both know you have borrowed mightily to build those mostly non-productive sectors (malls/towers) you so beautifully highlight in all those pictures, and big changes are coming from your banker (IMF). Further your refinery at Haina has the capacity for approximately 50,000 bpd and you consume 150,000 bpd. Finally, without Chavez and his oil, with its oh so generous terms, you will probably return to the days (not that long ago) when there were fuel shortages and lots of stations waited....with lots of cars....for the next truckload of gas.

    Finally, since when did Hugo Chavez ever honor a contract he did not like. Ask the gold mining companies which he now proposes to take over, or the oil companies he nationalized with the stroke of a pen, or the countless other companies...both foreign and domestic he forced to sell at his terms.


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2
    The petro deal is a self funded mechanism contract that allows the supplied nation to use the funds to repay the due bill from the new value on delivery, liberating the funds to be invested into other parts of their economies. In itself the Petro deal is a single contract, each delivery of oil is not a new contract but a parsed fulfillment of the contract itself.

    This is to say that even if the DR opted (as it does sometimes) not to order a new delivery under the terms of the contract at any given time span, the original repayment schedule is observed. Each new order adds to the outstanding bill, but the actual payment of the financed delivery is not added to the principal as a unit in the contract, but in themselves are timed as prenegotiated in the petro deal. Only when the grace period expires in the new delivery, it's then when the payment of accounts is added to the ledger. But again, each payment cycle is not the same and remains pegged to the date and schedule of the original time of delivery and terms of financing.

    If Venezuela halted delivery of all new and future orders of oil to the DR, in the petro deal this becomes an unilateral action of breaking the contract and allows the DR to seek compensation by means of establishing a periodic table of payments that reflects the loss of income from the new replenishing deliveries. This was negotiated very careful to avoid what Chavez and the petro partners considered a potential problem if the opposition in that country sought to again remove Chavez by illegal means from power and null the petro deal in penalty to those partner coutries.

    For Venezuela there's never a loss in the petro deals (Chavez' Populist gov that is), as they sought to place a mechanism of mid to long term food security in their nation. The scope of the Petro deal provides Chavez with the best solution to that problem.

    In short, for the DR having Venezuela void the contract is a bad thing for supply, but a good thing from the economic perspective. For Venezuela's side, voiding the contract is a bad political move as it would create a distancing from nations that are solid suppliers and participants in the region.

    Can it happen? Given how much the opposition hates the man and his policies the odds are large that it could take place if the remove him forcefully from power.

    As for the shortages back then? It wasn't the problem of oil deliveries to the country but the lack of a refinery able to process the demand without the gov having to pay higher rates for already refined gasoline transported to the DR in tankers. The cost of gasoline ready to dispense VS oil to refine in a tanker is very, very high... The DR had to wait in line as it happens to countries that today (like Haiti) lack refining capacity to do so their own, for the suppliers to refine their orders and given the difference in weight per area of the gasoline VS crude oil, not a lot of tankers were willing to pick a light and less profitable delivery over a heavy order. The DR had to pay extra fees for the gas coming into the country during those times...
    One Dominican at a time please!


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    Quote Originally Posted by PICHARDO View Post
    So... After going and going since the thread started (when?) now we must just wait one more year to see all your prophetic Doom and Gloom visioned for the DR economy??!!!! Good! Because 2012 is about to start and you say it will be the worst for the DR and I say NOT!...

    Let the times roll once again!!!!


    Once again Pichardo, you ned to re-read, accurately quote, and attempt to comprehend the statement. The final sentence says, after I outlined several possible, but not guaranteed scenarios, "Things may (my bold) be vastly different for the D.R. in another year."

    Your failure to accurately quote, or your attempt to misquote for your purpose, is sort of like you showing us more photos to try to convince us of that dynamic economy.

    You can quote me all you want, but do not misquote me because it hurts your already fragile credibility.

    And speaking of quotes, exact ones.......25:1.....we are all still waiting.


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2

  7. #2997
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    Quote Originally Posted by PICHARDO View Post
    The petro deal is a self funded mechanism contract that allows the supplied nation to use the funds to repay the due bill from the new value on delivery, liberating the funds to be invested into other parts of their economies. In itself the Petro deal is a single contract, each delivery of oil is not a new contract but a parsed fulfillment of the contract itself.

    This is to say that even if the DR opted (as it does sometimes) not to order a new delivery under the terms of the contract at any given time span, the original repayment schedule is observed. Each new order adds to the outstanding bill, but the actual payment of the financed delivery is not added to the principal as a unit in the contract, but in themselves are timed as prenegotiated in the petro deal. Only when the grace period expires in the new delivery, it's then when the payment of accounts is added to the ledger. But again, each payment cycle is not the same and remains pegged to the date and schedule of the original time of delivery and terms of financing.

    If Venezuela halted delivery of all new and future orders of oil to the DR, in the petro deal this becomes an unilateral action of breaking the contract and allows the DR to seek compensation by means of establishing a periodic table of payments that reflects the loss of income from the new replenishing deliveries. This was negotiated very careful to avoid what Chavez and the petro partners considered a potential problem if the opposition in that country sought to again remove Chavez by illegal means from power and null the petro deal in penalty to those partner coutries.

    For Venezuela there's never a loss in the petro deals (Chavez' Populist gov that is), as they sought to place a mechanism of mid to long term food security in their nation. The scope of the Petro deal provides Chavez with the best solution to that problem.

    In short, for the DR having Venezuela void the contract is a bad thing for supply, but a good thing from the economic perspective. For Venezuela's side, voiding the contract is a bad political move as it would create a distancing from nations that are solid suppliers and participants in the region.

    Can it happen? Given how much the opposition hates the man and his policies the odds are large that it could take place if the remove him forcefully from power.

    As for the shortages back then? It wasn't the problem of oil deliveries to the country but the lack of a refinery able to process the demand without the gov having to pay higher rates for already refined gasoline transported to the DR in tankers. The cost of gasoline ready to dispense VS oil to refine in a tanker is very, very high... The DR had to wait in line as it happens to countries that today (like Haiti) lack refining capacity to do so their own, for the suppliers to refine their orders and given the difference in weight per area of the gasoline VS crude oil, not a lot of tankers were willing to pick a light and less profitable delivery over a heavy order. The DR had to pay extra fees for the gas coming into the country during those times...


    OK! I get it now. Venezuela has given you a lifetime contract for oil.....and if at anytime they stop supplying, you have the unilateral right to stop paying....and all that oil is then free.....and you can collect damages for them not supplying you the subsidized future oil.

    You have stretched a whole lot of facts here over the years, but this one is right up there with some of the most ridiculous things you have ever said.....like 25:1, the Dominican gold standard, the Chinese Yen (this ones from awhile ago, but not forgotten).


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by PICHARDO View Post
    You may want to visit a FTZ company in the DR that's engaged in manufacturing uniforms and gear for the US military. What you didn't know is that final stitch is done in the U.S. as regulation imply but 99% of the work is done HERE already!
    They get the materials sourced from the U.S. and only labor is partial of the manufacturing process.

    Pichardo:

    Name one FTZ company that makes clothing for the U.S. Military....not one that makes military "style" clothing either.


    Respectfully,
    Playacaribe2

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    Quote Originally Posted by porkman100 View Post
    Playa; During the first gulf war it was hard to get fuel,I had to park the car and do cabs, they would chase gas stations and had intell on next delivery.The excuse was the gulf problems but spins do take place. This days with all this new, found affluence and the abundance of jeepetas we have a much higher consumption and astronomical fuel bills.
    The problem is very real and unavoidable, tyrants leave havoc at their demise and their new leaders wont be able to continue squandering so much wealth.
    Envision a triple whammy with Chavez kicking the bucket, a right wing gov't demanding dollars for oil and Israel bombing the hell out of Iran. I wonder what Little Ole DR would do then with all those jeepetas up the wazoo and nothing to push them along. The population is many millions more since you Porkman experienced that. BTW, are you Dominican Porkie? You have lots of experience in the DR. Tell us more about those shortages since you lived it. I was only 11 in 91 so I have no recollection of those problems. I only remember singing Mi Escuelita, LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PICHARDO View Post
    You may want to visit a FTZ company in the DR that's engaged in manufacturing uniforms and gear for the US military. What you didn't know is that final stitch is done in the U.S. as regulation imply but 99% of the work is done HERE already!
    They get the materials sourced from the U.S. and only labor is partial of the manufacturing process.

    Best regards to all those men and women in Veterans Day as well!
    Yes, we may want to. Can you give a name and address so we can?
    I'm assuming they pay their employees in gold, right?
    Der Fish

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