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  #1  
Old 03-17-2009, 12:55 PM
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MBTS Level 1 (10)
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i have just returned from my third trip to the DR. Sadly, I continue not to trust nealy all I come in contact with. In my travels around Latin America, I find the people of the DR the most hospitable and kind I have ever come upon. No doubt the putas and street hawkers leave no room for unconditional acts kindness, but why does this pervasive feeling of hidden motive linger within? I read that nealy every city is unsafe to be in. I don't like that. I am white and worked in Detrot, the most dangerous city in America, for nearly 30 years. When comparing the country of DR and the City of Detroit, I believe Detroit is much safer. I don't believe, statisticly, the Cities of the DR are as dangerous as reported. Granted, there are surely some pretty nasty areas in major cities, but does it taint the whole city/countyr? I imagine that for me it's the contrast of believing the people are do damn nice how can they be so damn bad at the same time.
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2009, 01:29 PM
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cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 (648)
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I dunno, depends on the crime.

IMO, Dominican on Dominican crime goes somewhat under reported to gringos, and the Dominican on tourist/gringo crime goes over reported to gringos.

From my observations, folks come to the DR and naively act with less regard for their personal property and safety that when they were home. I see it all the time, gringos walking and drinking in virtual ghettos.

There are places they go, and people they associate with that no way they would back home.

I wouldn't hang in Cabrini Green in Chicago, nor knowlingly associate with the residents there; why on earth would I choose a similar place and people to hang with in the DR?

The anology I make is living in the DR is like living in a newly regentrified area of a large city: your neighborhood may be excellent, but a tough barrio is 2 blocks away. Plan your personal safety and secure your property accordingly.

BTW-there is really no effective 911 to bail you out of a jam. You're more on your own with trusted neighbors.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:14 PM
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NALs Level 5 NALs Level 5 NALs Level 5 NALs Level 5 (380)
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Originally Posted by cobraboy View Post
From my observations, folks come to the DR and naively act with less regard for their personal property and safety that when they were home. I see it all the time, gringos walking and drinking in virtual ghettos.

There are places they go, and people they associate with that no way they would back home.

I wouldn't hang in Cabrini Green in Chicago, nor knowlingly associate with the residents there; why on earth would I choose a similar place and people to hang with in the DR?
Tourists to the DR are sold two things at once:

1. A tropical paradise.

2. The proverbial "other."

The first one is so obvious I think it doesn't need any more mention. The second one, well here it goes.

In order to sell the DR and differentiate the DR from other places, the "other" has to be sold.

This is why tourists are sold the impression that Dominicans live in small wood homes, when in fact most Dominicans live in cement homes. Some how the image sold to the tourists blinds them to the obvious which is clearly visible. Hence, you often will see tourists posting pictures of the tiny wood homes found throughout the country with the subtitle saying "typical home". The idea that Dominicans live in cement homes is seen as not "typical", and forget about Dominicans living in U.S. style homes/apartments.

Along with that, I think there is a particular architecture/urban design that is sold to tourists as the "real" Dominican city. Perhaps this is the reason many tourists feel that the real DR is places like Cristo Rey in the capital or los Pepines in Santiago or Barrio Haitiano in Puerto Plata. Places like Los Prados/Bella Vista/Miraflores in the capital or La Zurza/Gurabo/Thomen in Santiago are seen as not authentic Dominican places, despite all those places being filled with Dominicans.

Even the ambiance is a selling point for the proverbial "other." A neighborhood with Bachata blasting at full volume, people playing dominos on the sidewalk, and noise/chaos is seen as authentically Dominican. However, a quiet suburban neighborhood with leafy quiet streets, well appointed homes, and an overall relaxed ambiance is seen as not authentically Dominican.

Perhaps the "other" is also sold on a racial basis. Its quite obvious among Dominicans that foreigners are much more prone to think of the DR as a 'black' country and that's what exist in their minds; while Dominicans like to think of the DR for what it is, a multiracial melting pot.

The tourist who "buy" the proverbial "other" are the one's more prone to shop at Mercado Modelo than in Plaza Central, simply because Mercado Modelo is much more "authentically Dominican."

The more adventurious is much more prone to criss cross the country in carros públicos and guaguas than in Metrobus and taxis because the former is "more authentic."

So on and so forth.

The point is that they miss and reject a huge part of the real DR because they have bought into the proverbial "other" DR.

That leads people, I think, to look at the "other" from a perspective that they (the tourist) imagine themselves as being excluded from the surroundings they find themselves in. Its sort of they are watching a television show in which the 'exotic people' are suppose to go on with their lives and not be affected by the presence of the tourist. This probably creates a sense of being invisible, a sense of "nothing will happen to me", and relieves the tourist from their otherwise normal limits that in their home country prevents them from going into the least desirable parts of the cities and mingling with the low class.

The sensation is that nothing around the tourist is 'normal', thus 'normal' attitude is not appropriate. The more adventurous tourist ventures into weird places and the least adventurous will remain behind the gates of the resorts and only glimpse the country through guided tours.

Its the way the tourist industry works and there isn't much that can be done to change that.

Even in the sex industry, the concept of the "other" is paramount to making it work. The tourist has to see the locals as being "freer", "naturally prone to being promiscuous", and a host of other rationalizations in order to remove the sense of guilt that would otherwise prevent them from indulging in such activities.

I think that there is a certain subset of foreigners that for some reason go a step further and want to be absorbed into that "otherness" they were sold. These are the one's who want to be more Dominican than the Dominicans. Of course, what they consider to be the "real" DR is whatever was sold to them via the "other."

-NALs
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MBTS View Post
I imagine that for me it's the contrast of believing the people are do damn nice how can they be so damn bad at the same time.
Did it ever occurred to you that there is more than one type of Dominican? I don't know what type of "real" Dominican has been sold to you, but your comment is typical of people who think of the DR being one thing and only one thing.

Its not, its many things. Once you understand that, the "contradictions" will no longer be so.

-NALs
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  #5  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:35 PM
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Exellent post and oh so true!!! Thanks NALs
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MBTS View Post
i have just returned from my third trip to the DR.
As they say in baseball, three strikes and your out.
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:03 AM
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Thandie Level 4 Thandie Level 4 Thandie Level 4 Thandie Level 4 (317)
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Originally Posted by NALs View Post
Did it ever occurred to you that there is more than one type of Dominican? I don't know what type of "real" Dominican has been sold to you, but your comment is typical of people who think of the DR being one thing and only one thing.

Its not, its many things. Once you understand that, the "contradictions" will no longer be so.

-NALs
True and the other side of the coin is true too!
There is more than one (or two) type of tourist.
I agree about not putting ALL people into one box.
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2009, 01:03 AM
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Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 Lambada Level 9 (1003)
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Originally Posted by MBTS View Post
Sadly, I continue not to trust nealy all I come in contact with.
Why is that 'sad'? If I was to be brutally honest, I don't trust people when I first come into contact with them - any country, any nationality. I might appear to, all the social pleasantries etc but as far as reality is concerned everyone has to prove themselves to me. Again, any nationality, any country including my country of origin. And this process takes time. My conclusions as to whether they are trustworthy are based on behaviour not words.

You don't pick up 'hidden motive' in other countries? Maybe because you're not looking for it. Or it is hidden more effectively.

There is nothing wrong with exercising your intuition & wariness - don't we all? I don't understand why you would feel guilty or sad about so doing? But I reiterate - I apply this to everyone regardless of nationality, race, or ethnicity. I don't see the DR as being different from anywhere else in this respect.
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2009, 10:21 AM
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cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 cobraboy Level 7 (648)
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Originally Posted by Lambada View Post
Why is that 'sad'? If I was to be brutally honest, I don't trust people when I first come into contact with them - any country, any nationality. I might appear to, all the social pleasantries etc but as far as reality is concerned everyone has to prove themselves to me. Again, any nationality, any country including my country of origin. And this process takes time. My conclusions as to whether they are trustworthy are based on behaviour not words.

You don't pick up 'hidden motive' in other countries? Maybe because you're not looking for it. Or it is hidden more effectively.

There is nothing wrong with exercising your intuition & wariness - don't we all? I don't understand why you would feel guilty or sad about so doing? But I reiterate - I apply this to everyone regardless of nationality, race, or ethnicity. I don't see the DR as being different from anywhere else in this respect.
Well said, Ginnie...
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2009, 10:30 AM
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bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 (334)
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Originally Posted by Lambada View Post
Why is that 'sad'? If I was to be brutally honest, I don't trust people when I first come into contact with them - any country, any nationality. I might appear to, all the social pleasantries etc but as far as reality is concerned everyone has to prove themselves to me. Again, any nationality, any country including my country of origin. And this process takes time. My conclusions as to whether they are trustworthy are based on behaviour not words.

You don't pick up 'hidden motive' in other countries? Maybe because you're not looking for it. Or it is hidden more effectively.

There is nothing wrong with exercising your intuition & wariness - don't we all? I don't understand why you would feel guilty or sad about so doing? But I reiterate - I apply this to everyone regardless of nationality, race, or ethnicity. I don't see the DR as being different from anywhere else in this respect.
Too right. It is against my nature, because I'm trustworthy and honest, and expect others to be that way. I still have a hard time remembering to lock my car because growing up we neither lock our house or cars at night unless we were going away(country boy with big dogs). My wife on the other hand trusts almost nobody except myself, her mother, and my parents. I have learned the hard way that friendly doesn't mean trustworthy.
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