Toxics in Samana?

[tochel]

hi keith
ok. why so aggressive?
this was my first and last post/treat on this forum.
please remove me from this forum!
bye bye
tochel

the link works fine. some settings on your pc prevents the forwarding to this page:
http://www.domrep.ch/forum/files/dra...ter_210504.pdf

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by tochel

hi keith
ok. why so aggressive?
this was my first and last post/treat on this forum.
please remove me from this forum!
bye bye
tochel

the link works fine. some settings on your pc prevents the forwarding to this page:
http://www.domrep.ch/forum/files/dra...ter_210504.pdf

Tochel,
Thanks for posting the new, direct link.
Perhaps I was too strong in my wording, and if so, I apologize. But I think you are overreacting, being far too oversensitive. The original link did NOT lead to the letter, and it was NOT my computer that was the problem.
I think if you examine this entire thread, I have given you quite a lot of leeway . In this particular instance, I felt it best to alert you to the problem with the link so you could have a chance to repair or replace it, rather than remove the post that seemed, on the face of it, merely a link to another forum.

I am not the enemy.

So far I have not removed anyone from this Forum, and hope never to be forced to. You can chose to remove yourself, if you wish. I will be sorry to see you stop participating. You are very welcome to stay or return if you change you mind.

Regards,
Keith

[omars]

Originally Posted by Andy B

As I don't speak Spanish well enough to read the news in that language, I rely on my news in English from DR1. Also, I speak absolutely no German so your DR-Rep link is of no use to me.

Again I ask: Where are the piles of this stuff located? I'd like to see and photograph them. Surely you can answer that.

They burried it and it is getting in the water supply. I can read spanish to confirm you that the Dominican press is not especulating.

[gringo in dr]

So after reading that 15 page report, here is the summary.

They didn't find any high levels of heavy metals that would cause any health problems.

But they also stated that the tests they conducted would NOT show if there was dioxin present. Isn't that what we are searching for?

[bernd appel]

laut einem telefonat von kim bedall an pino - bei dem ich wohne und der mir ausgerichtet hatte, das kim mich telefonisch erreichen wollte, ich aber nicht da war - sei ich ein nestbeschmutzer und schwaetzer. Was mir eigentlich einfallen wuerde, kim so runter zu machen. ueberhaupt sei die rockash nicht giftig und wir wollten uns nur mit "sensationsjournalismus" wichtig machen.

Na ja, was gibts denn da noch hinzu zu fuegen?

Armselig sage ich da nur - vor allem koennte sie ja selber stellung nehmen - sogar in diesem forum und wir waeren alle gespannt, was sie so zu sagen haette. denn die meisten sprechen ja englisch und verstehen somit, was die mutter der wale zu sagen hat.

bernd appel - bonitadesign
calle playa bonita - las terrenas - samana peninsula

tel: 1 (809) 248 53 79
bernd.appel@gmx.ch
www.caribbean-beauty.com
www.the-samana-page.com

[jsizemore]

Come on guys. My house is 50 years old and I know there is lead paint in it. But any time I do any kind of work I just do it because I am not certified of having lead. I choose not to do anything to document something so as to not be covered by regulations.
Everyone knows the way around the rules. That what is going on here.
John

[gardito]

Hi there! First of all, I have been a lurker here at DR1 for about 2 years. I have been visiting the DR at least yearly since 1994. I’m the kind of person that likes to go “local”. I don’t like the AI’s because they tend to alienate you from the “real” people.

Enough said about me. Now to the matter at hand. I may have a biased opinion on “rockash” as you call it, but I have the inside skinny on what is and what it is not, not to mention what we perceive to be the “real” reasons for all the hoopla around it in Samana.

I have researched coal ash and its uses for the past year and have attended seminars on it. There are different types of ash as there are different types of boilers and different types of fuels for these boilers.

Flyash is the most common to be recycled. By recycling I mean that it is used as part of something else, the most common being as an additive in concrete. Flyash has two or three types depending on who you talk to: Class F, Class C, and Class N. Class F flyash usually comes from pulverized coal (PC) boilers and is the one listed in ASTM C-316 for use as a concrete additive.

Bed ash has lesser chances of being recycled, but can be used for its mechanical properties in applications such as road beds and filling materials. Boiler Slag is also considered for these applications. They may also be used for manufacturing Cement.

Scrubber Sludge may be used in any high gypsum application such as manufacturing drywall panels.

AES Guayama is a circulating fluidized bed (CFB) boiler using Colombian low-sulphur coal. Ash content for this coal is around 5-7 % . It has the strictest environmental limits in the US, (at least until the next power generating unit come on line in the US).

As with any coal fired boiler, ash is generated. And as with anything generated it must stored and then disposed of or RECYCLED. CFB ash is misunderstood and only recently has research been done on its uses. PC ash on the other hand has been extensively used for the better part of last century (ie. Hoover Dam).

Do you generate toxic waste at home by throwing away food leftovers or paper/plastic trash? Not really. How about storing all of what you dispose at home for a year, would you do that? I don’t think so. The most environmentally safe thing to do would be to compost your organic trash and to recycle paper/plastic/aluminum, right? How many of us do that? Not many.

AES needs to dispose this ash in the most environmentally safe way possible. Options were and are still being sought out for this aspect of the business.

Multigestiones Valencia came in with an offer to haul this ash, which is composed of flyash and bed ash mixed together, which was considered and found to be cost-effective. They had all their paperwork in order, so a contract was set up. Like it’s said “the rest is history”.

As to why the ash is not used in Puerto Rico, this is a misstatement. At the time different permits were being sought here for local use, but in the land of red tape, this takes time, a really long time. Today, a couple of companies want to use this ash and the permits are forthcoming, so expect local use soon.

On the million dollar investment of Carmelo Group for flyash use in Puerto Rico and why it is being imported from the states, two things. First, it demonstrates that ash is not toxic and can be imported/exported. Second, remember the different kinds of flyash and their uses. They are bringing in Class F flyash from Georgia for use in concrete. They are also enlightening the construction industry and the local government on the uses of flyash. Something that probably hasn’t been done in DR.

Now for the inside scoop on the fracas. I will not use names as I do not wish to be hit with a defamation/slandering lawsuit.

Multigestiones Valencia (MV) had this dream of putting rockash to beneficial use and make a profit while at it. Please remember the uses for ash. When they brought to the DR, they specified the intended uses for it. They also claimed that they were going to slash cement/concrete prices with their product. The cement/concrete interests on the island, which I hear has their loading docks also in Samana, found this not to be, well, in their interest.

They get the ears of some local watch groups, and tell them about this garbage being dumped on their land. The local Sindico, which by the way I believe was PLD, saw a way to make the national government (PRD) look bad since they authorized the shipment in the first place. So, here is where we stand. Tests, other than the ones made by UASD, have not been published. UASD test results are suspect to me since I have seen the test results made in the states for the same material around the same time frame, and these conform to EPA standards. Toxicity levels are neglible.

Rounding up, I believe MV did not have the business sense to do business in DR the right way. I also believe that they should not have brought the material over if they didn’t have everything squared away on the receiving end.

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by gardito

Rounding up, I believe MV did not have the business sense to do business in DR the right way. I also believe that they should not have brought the material over if they didn’t have everything squared away on the receiving end.

Thanks for the interesting perspective on the situation. I must ask, though, what your interest in this affair is and what drove you to look to into the issue into such depth. While what you have written sounds authoritative, you've given us no real explanation of who you really are and why we should believe your "inside skinny," as you call it, over any of the other theories, explanations, etc. that have been offered on this incident.

Your last paragraph makes two good points, to which I will repeat a third I made along time ago in this thread and I have yet to see adequately addressed by anyone defending or giving benefit of the doubt to this shipment:

there remains the question of whether or not this shipment was even legal, whether toxic or non-toxic. I have tried to point out the ambiguities I see on this point under existing Dominican law and its treaty obligations; I leave it to a lawyer to clarify the point for us.

The Environment Forum Moderator

[siren]

Our villa overlooks the dock in Arroyo Baril. Is this the same area? Should I be concerned up on the hill? I hope testing is done soon.

[tochel]

check out current rockash pictures:
www.DomRep.ch - Rockash