Needless Dominican Deaths

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by LarrySpencer

I have yet to see someone gasping for air. And maybe, just maybe these premature deaths can be attributed to a poor medical program, lack of innoculations, potable water, and the list goes on and on.

Then maybe, just maybe, you don't have an asthmatic in your family and have yet to live 24/7/365 like I did in SD for four years. My daughter had episodes of gasping for air triggered by atmospheric conditions in SD.

Rain does not solve everything -- as a purported environment writer (your own claim in another thread) -- you should know that. As a matter of fact, rain in the DR often causes as many environmental and health problems as it may solve.

The Environment Forum Moderator

[Chirimoya]

There appears to be a high incidence of asthma in SD, as in every polluted city. It's not just the poorly maintained vehicles that are to blame, it's also the sheer number of all vehicles and the extent to which they are (over)used, not to mention the generators.

[NALs]

People,

Don't forget the air in these regions gets filled with sand (yes, you read correctly, keep reading) from time to time.

Believe it or not, I certainly believe this because everytimes it happens my eyes get itchy and dry and the coughing starts and keeps going and going and going, some sand storms that blow off the Sahara desert (yes, you read that right the SAHARA IN AFRICA) are so large and strong that sufficient sand particles actually reaches the Caribbean. On those days when it does, the sun looks murky and allergic people live a living hell, until those wonderful downpours clear the air of all that "pollution".

Also, we got the trade winds which helps keep our pollution levels at bay nationwide, in addition to the fact that our biggest cities are not in a bowl mountain valley. Despite the fact that Santo Domingo has the worst air quality in the country, it's still extremely better than what you can expect to find in say Mexico City, Bogota on a warm day, or any other major Latin American city in a bowl mountainous valley.

We can all agree that if those electric generators would not be used so often (of course, that depends on how dependable the electrical grid is, but with everyone and their mother stealing that vital juice, well...) and if those disgusting smoke belching cars would get banned and removed from the road. Even some motorcycles belch so much crap that you can't drive behind them because the smoke blocks your view!

And let's not even start talking about those giant Mac trucks, yuck yuck yuck or should I say cough, cough, cough!!

-NAL

[Stodgord]

Perhaps, cleaner gasoline and car maintenance could help those belches. I remember renting a 1997 Honda CR-V. It look presentable from the outside but internally it was (explotao). Once I hit the highway, the backfiring started and the fume were coming inside the car. I arrived to my destination with a headache and a bad,tingly and heavy taste in my mouth.

When it comes to cars Dominicans think that a fresh painted vehicle is new despite the internal components being deteriorated. This reminds me of one time I was visiting a distant relative, his son had just purchased a brand new car (as they put it), but is was a refurbished used car.

[LarrySpencer]

Asthma, I'm terribly sorry about your child being afflicted with this awful disease, but let's not jump to conclusions about the causes.

The number one cause of Asthma is genetics. Yes, asthma tends to run in families and many people with asthma also have other allergic contisions such as shinitis (inflammation of the nose lining).

Some environmental factors also may trigger the disease, or "kick start" it in small bebies by affecting the immune system in early life. These include, living in warm, well-furnished, carpeted homes that don't allow much airflow. Yes, that's right, I said living in well enclosed structures. These provide a great breeding ground for large numbers of house dust mites in bedding, carpets and furnishings. Many children spend too much time playing indoors, rather than outdoors. This further increases the dust mite sensitisation. Exposure to tobacco smoke whether during the mother's pregnancy or in early childhood predisposes children to developing asthma and can make the symptoms more severe. Children also become sensitised to animals, pollens, molds and dust.

Changes in diet can also trigger asthma. High proportions of processed foods, higher salt intakes, a lower antioxidant intake and a lack of fresh fish (lower intake omega-3 fatty acids).

Lack of Excercise: Spending more time in front of the television means children get far less exercise, causing less stretching of the airways and a greater tendency for the muscle in the airway walls to contract abnormally when exposed to minor irritants.

And the final possible causes, listed lastly because it is not as common...occupational exposure. This includes things like breathing car exhaust, chemicals, gases, etc.

So, although your child suffers from this, don't go jumping on the environmental over reactionists bandwagon just yet. Take a look at the other things you are doing as well as your family history first.

And maybe, just maybe, you will find that there are more cases of asthma in Santo Domingo primarily because there are just more people there!

[LarrySpencer]

Originally Posted by Stodgord

Perhaps, cleaner gasoline and car maintenance could help those belches. I remember renting a 1997 Honda CR-V. It look presentable from the outside but internally it was (explotao). Once I hit the highway, the backfiring started and the fume were coming inside the car. I arrived to my destination with a headache and a bad,tingly and heavy taste in my mouth.

When it comes to cars Dominicans think that a fresh painted vehicle is new despite the internal components being deteriorated. This reminds me of one time I was visiting a distant relative, his son had just purchased a brand new car (as they put it), but is was a refurbished used car.

Wow, there's a great idea, cleaner fuel and car maintenance....

You must be from California, because that's where I'm from and the cost of driving is higher here than anywhere else in the nation. For instance, all cars registered in California must be built for California emission standards. This means that every two years, when your vehicle is registered (by the way you have to register it every year) it must pass a smog test by an independent testing facility. If it doesn't pass, it will not be registered and cannot be on the road. So let's see, registration is about 80 per year on my car and the smog test is another 60.

Now lets talk about fuel. California is the only state that requires that fuel be refined differently and additional chemicals added to make it cleaner burning. This makes our fuel cost about $.20 above the national average. Take in mind that the national average is skewed already because it includes California fuel costs, therefore the average cost of fuel in CA is really a little closer to $.25 higher. I fill my tank about twice every week...let's see, an 18-gallon tank, times $.25, times 2X per week, times 52 weeks per year....So I'm paying roughly 468 more per year just for fuel. So, that is approximately 17% of the average income of the dominican public in added fuel costs alone. So if we increase fuel costs by this percentage, that means that just about everything else that is trucked in will also share this increased cost. By the way, the total fuel cost for this particular vehicle is about 5616 USD per year, and this is figured at about 93 DP, which we all know is much more than that. So cleaner fuel....yeah, that's gonna fly!

[Keith R]

Larry,
Maybe you meant well, and it is always good to point out the many triggers and causes of asthma, but (a) I know what triggers asthma in me and my daughter; (b) after working on environmental and health issues for 25 years, I damn well know that the pollution levels in SD are sufficient to trigger asthmatic episodes.
I know my daughter's asthma triggers, thank you very much, so don't presume to lecture me about them. And while we lived in SD there was usually a strong correlation to exposure to traffic exhaust and or unrestricted emissions from construction sites, or in one case, the Duquesa waste dump being burnt, which deposited a black dust over much of western SD for days one year.
Some of your discussion of asthma triggers also exposes your limited knowledge of living conditions "on the ground" in the DR, as well. Carpets? How many carpets have you seen in Dominican homes? I've seen very, very few, and I have been visiting Dominican homes for 20 yrs and lived there full-time for four.
Lack of airflow? Most Dominican homes are open to airflow year-round, 24 hrs a day. Mine certainly was. Perhaps the very rich with air conditioning supported by a generator (planta) keep their airflow minimized, but most Dominicans and I venture to guess most DR1ers do not have such houses.
Lack of playing outside? You must have never raised kids in the DR. I did. They played more outside than in.
And one more thing....

So, although your child suffers from this, don't go jumping on the environmental over reactionists bandwagon just yet. Take a look at the other things you are doing as well as your family history first.

First time I have been called an over-reactionist by anyone on this board, at least that I recall. Ask anyone who has been on this board any length of time back to my first posts in 1998. I don't jump on anyone's bandwagon. I tend to consider carefully before posting, and when I do, try to give measured posts. Just guessing, but that's probably why I was asked to be the Environment Forum Moderator.

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by LarrySpencer

Wow, there's a great idea, cleaner fuel and car maintenance....

You must be from California, because that's where I'm from and the cost of driving is higher here than anywhere else in the nation. For instance, all cars registered in California must be built for California emission standards. This means that every two years, when your vehicle is registered (by the way you have to register it every year) it must pass a smog test by an independent testing facility. If it doesn't pass, it will not be registered and cannot be on the road. So let's see, registration is about 80 per year on my car and the smog test is another 60.

Now lets talk about fuel. California is the only state that requires that fuel be refined differently and additional chemicals added to make it cleaner burning. This makes our fuel cost about $.20 above the national average. Take in mind that the national average is skewed already because it includes California fuel costs, therefore the average cost of fuel in CA is really a little closer to $.25 higher. I fill my tank about twice every week...let's see, an 18-gallon tank, times $.25, times 2X per week, times 52 weeks per year....So I'm paying roughly 468 more per year just for fuel. So, that is approximately 17% of the average income of the dominican public in added fuel costs alone. So if we increase fuel costs by this percentage, that means that just about everything else that is trucked in will also share this increased cost. By the way, the total fuel cost for this particular vehicle is about 5616 USD per year, and this is figured at about 93 DP, which we all know is much more than that. So cleaner fuel....yeah, that's gonna fly!

No, let's talk about the Dominican Republic, not California. Do you know anything about fuel quality in the DR? The ambiente NOx, SOx, CO and particulate levels in Santo Domingo? What is the average age and condition of the fleet in the DR?

And comparing fuel costs in California -- some of the highest in the US, with special conditions, special EPA blending rules, and CAL-EPA rules that no other state must match, etc. -- with anything in the DR is simply specious. The costs don't translate. The two situations are like apples and oranges. If you wish to compare the compliance costs for fuel in Costa Rica with that of the DR, then maybe there's something worth discussing. But c'mon! There's a reason worldwide "California rules" means the toughest, most costly vehicle emissions norms!

The Environment Forum Moderator

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by Nal0whs

People,

Don't forget the air in these regions gets filled with sand (yes, you read correctly, keep reading) from time to time.

Believe it or not, I certainly believe this because everytimes it happens my eyes get itchy and dry and the coughing starts and keeps going and going and going, some sand storms that blow off the Sahara desert (yes, you read that right the SAHARA IN AFRICA) are so large and strong that sufficient sand particles actually reaches the Caribbean. On those days when it does, the sun looks murky and allergic people live a living hell, until those wonderful downpours clear the air of all that "pollution".

Also, we got the trade winds which helps keep our pollution levels at bay nationwide, in addition to the fact that our biggest cities are not in a bowl mountain valley. Despite the fact that Santo Domingo has the worst air quality in the country, it's still extremely better than what you can expect to find in say Mexico City, Bogota on a warm day, or any other major Latin American city in a bowl mountainous valley.

We can all agree that if those electric generators would not be used so often (of course, that depends on how dependable the electrical grid is, but with everyone and their mother stealing that vital juice, well...) and if those disgusting smoke belching cars would get banned and removed from the road. Even some motorcycles belch so much crap that you can't drive behind them because the smoke blocks your view!

And let's not even start talking about those giant Mac trucks, yuck yuck yuck or should I say cough, cough, cough!!

-NAL

Nals, sand is not a big contributor to poor air quality in SD. Sorry, nice try. Ash from uncontrolled open-air burning, dust from uncontrolled construction practice, maybe, but sand, nah....

Comparing ANY CITY to Mexico City will make that city look good. C'mon! You picked one of the worst in the world. Doesn't mean SD is all that good.

And oh, BTW, Bogota's air quality has been improving and they are taking steps to improve it further still. Just what is this government doing? Anything at all?

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Keith R

Nals, sand is not a big contributor to poor air quality in SD. Sorry, nice try. Ash from uncontrolled open-air burning, dust from uncontrolled construction practice, maybe, but sand, nah....

Comparing ANY CITY to Mexico City will make that city look good. C'mon! You picked one of the worst in the world. Doesn't mean SD is all that good.

And oh, BTW, Bogota's air quality has been improving and they are taking steps to improve it further still. Just what is this government doing? Anything at all?

I heard of a metro, but you know how that was taken care of by the media...

And, Keith, next time a massive sand storm blows off the African coast heading our way, track it. You will notice the difference.

And, yes, ok, Mexico City was not the best example, but perhaps our American friends can show us the way. Let's use Los Angeles as an example?

Or perhaps northeastern American cities in the middle of July?

Or maybe, just maybe Atlanta in August?