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  #11  
Old 12-27-2006, 02:21 PM
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Keith R Level 2 Keith R Level 2 (119)
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Ah, those unintended consequences will get you every time!

What this tells me is that
(1) such protections should be discussed publicly with civil society ahead of being imposed, so that all understand it and can input on how to improve (or at least diminish the number of absurdities);

(2) there needs to be found some way to make those campesinos feel that they have an incentive or stake in helping preserve and reforest the caoba -- maybe some premium for turning in a healthy seedling capable of being transplanted to a protected forest?
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2006, 02:54 PM
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Mirador Level 1 (10)
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I have mahogany on my land, planted over 15 years ago, and it's no bigger than an overgrown bush. For it to have any value as timber, I would have to wait 50 or more years, and don't know if I will be alive tomorrow! For a campesino, mahogany trees are little more than pesty weeds. In the olden days, when land belonged to those who cultivated it, all it took was to plant a few mango and avocado trees, and the land was yours. That's how most of the island acquired such an extensive covering of fruit-bearing trees...
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2006, 02:58 PM
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Keith R Level 2 Keith R Level 2 (119)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirador View Post
I have mahogany on my land, planted over 15 years ago, and it's no bigger than an overgrown bush. For it to have any value as timber, I would have to wait 50 or more years, and don't know if I will be alive tomorrow! For a campesino, mahogany trees are little more than pesty weeds.
Precisely why to figure out a way to get them to carefully remove those "pesky weeds" with root ball intact to a government-protected (or private protected, I'm not adverse to having someone like TNC set one up) nursery, where the trees will be allowed to reach full growth without depriving the campesino of use of his land....
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tordok View Post
....BTW, Mirador, could you please provide your sources on the Pre-Columbian deers, rabbits, monkeys issue? ....- Tordok
I did! however, the reference to my source did not get past the censor as a cursory reference to my post No. 5 can attest.
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2006, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith R View Post
Precisely why to figure out a way to get them to carefully remove those "pesky weeds" with root ball intact to a government-protected (or private protected, I'm not adverse to having someone like TNC set one up) nursery, where the trees will be allowed to reach full growth without depriving the campesino of use of his land....

Of course, it all boils down to a question of priorities. In my book the only species in danger of extinction at the present moment is the campesino.
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2006, 03:16 PM
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Keith R Level 2 Keith R Level 2 (119)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirador View Post
I did! however, the reference to my source did not get past the censor as a cursory reference to my post No. 5 can attest.
Don't remember what it was, but If I edited it out, it was because it was inappropriate. Contrary to popular myth, I rarely edit posts. I also rarely delete posts or threads. But sometimes people leave me no choice.
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2006, 06:04 PM
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Macocael is absolutely correct (as it is his custom). Once the DR finally chooses to address a problem, it inevitably comes down with very rigid formulas to deal with them, rather than sensible alternatives. I'll share a bit of my experience.

There are no campesinos in my family but as an investment/hobby back in the late 1970s and early 1980s my dad decided to buy some land in the DR. It was a well tended beautiful finquita less than 5 km southwest of Higuey where we initially raised cattle rather successfully. We also had cashew trees, mangoes, avocados and a number of other fruits.

At one time we decided to diversify our use of the land and and embarked on a larger scale more formal citrus proyect, with limes, oranges and lemons. We hired an Israeli agronomist to perform soil assessments, we secured financing and permits from Banco Agricola and Dept of Agriculture, we spent significant amounts of money clearing the brush, buying seeds, updating the irrigation system etc...and then we hit a wall: Foresta wouldn't give us a permit to move forward because in the midst of the parts of the farm where we planned to use there were perhaps 20-30 mahogany trees. We pleaded for alternatives, we offered reforesting other areas, we offered to pay fees while refusing to pay any bribes, etc. All the answers were negative. We got sick of it and ended up selling the whole thing a couple of years later. I might add that we are rather well-connected with people in decision-making posts and in fact my dad-in-law had himself been Director Nacional de Foresta before this whole thing happened. That did not help at all, "wrong administration" even though he was not a politico or affiliated with any party.

Last that I've heard, is that the area where our finca was has now been developed for homes (it is less than 10 mins. from "downtown" Higuey). Instead of having sustainable development alternatives that produce jobs and protect the land, they ultimately chose -quite possibly through bribes- to change the zoning altogether and put cement and polluters instead of a conscientious small agribusinnes. Go figure.

Same thing goes with hunting. In PR with similar migratory birds population for example, they have sensible hunting laws...permits, fees, seasons, protected zones, quotas, enforcement by rangers, etc.. in the DR, where indeed some people often abused the habitat and overkilled the birds (hundreds per hunter in one outing!!) one good day Dr. Balaguer decided that the best thing was to perennially ban hunting everywhere in the country altogether. Period. Now people poach, use insecticides and illegal hunters kill whatever and whenever they want, and just bribe whoever with a military uniform might raise an eyebrow, heck the guardias are often the 'mochileros' (retrievers).

In the DR unfortunately it is too often the ALL-GOOD vs ALL-BAD artificial dichotomies that carry the day.

- Tordok

**Mirador, edited or not you still kind of owe me that source about those animals. Thanks.
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2007, 10:16 AM
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sokitoumi Level 2 (70)
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is there a turtle sanctuary anywhere on the north coast and can manatees/dungongs been seen anywhere these days,,,i beleive the captive one died



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