Global Warming: True or a Hoax?

[Rafael Rothschild]

I know that this is not going to impress anybody, or change their minds about GW.

I'm a personal friend of Pedro Duque, the spanish astronaut; and I know, for a fact, that most scientist in NASA do not believe all the political bull @@@@ being said for the last 15 years regarding global warming.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't help to get that feeling of being right, when I hear such comments from people I respect a lot more than politicians or media employees.

[cobraboy]

A Contrived Story About the 'Denial Machine'

By ROBERT J. SAMUELSON
The Washington Post
August 15, 2007

Excerpt, copied as fair use:

We in the news business often enlist in moral crusades. Global warming is among the latest. Unfortunately, self-righteous indignation can undermine good journalism. A recent Newsweek cover story on global warming is a sobering reminder. It's an object lesson of how viewing the world as "good guys versus bad guys" can lead to a vast oversimplification of a messy story. Global warming has clearly occurred; the hard question is what to do about it.

If you missed Newsweek's story, here's the gist. A "well-coordinated, well-funded campaign by contrarian scientists, free-market think tanks and industry has created a paralyzing fog of doubt around climate change." This "denial machine" has obstructed action against global warming and is still "running at full throttle." The story's thrust: Discredit the "denial machine," and the U.S. can start the serious business of fighting global warming. The story was a wonderful read, marred only by its being fundamentally misleading.

The global-warming debate's great unmentionable is this: We lack the technology to get from here to there. Just because Arnold Schwarzenegger wants to cut emissions 80% below 1990 levels by 2050 doesn't mean it can happen.

URL for this article:
Free Article - WSJ.com

Message from Keith R, moderator: Cobra Boy, you have been on DR1 long enough to know the rules about quoting copyrighted stories from publications. Sorry I had to cut out some of the op-ed, but you cannot just cut-and-paste long articles from major publications here, and the readers can always go to the source URL to read the whole thing once you've whetted their appetite. Please stick to the title, author, source with URL, and no more than 100-200 words excerpted "copied as fair use." That goes for everybody, even moderators. Otherwise DR1 gets into legal troubles.

[cobraboy]

Those pesky facts...

TheStar.com - sciencetech - Red faces at NASA over climate-change blunder

[sjh]

Relativity is a theory and will remain that way until it is proven false.

Do not confuse with the media usage of the word.

when scientists say they have a theory it means that all evidence points to that idea and none contridicts it. when contridictory evidence comes to light, the theory is revised or thrown out and a new one is created....

right now, there is an overwhelming consensis among the scientific community, of which i used to be a part of, that humans are causing unpresidented climatic change. There are several conflicting hypothesis as to the outcome of these changes, but none of them are good.

I have read Michael Crichtons book "State of Fear", found it to be a good book on politics but not a good book on science.

again on CO2: and i restate we have ice records of CO2 vs temperature of the planet over several hundred thousand years through many major ice ages and hot spells. The record far predates our own species and is much longer than all known cyclical planetary events. the industrial age and mass deforestation begin and suddenly the CO2 levels are many many many times higher than all of recorded history. To deny to obvious corelation of these two events is crazy. Unless you have an alternate working theory or can provide EVIDENCE that the existing theory is wrong, you are not acting scientifically or logically.

Note: I believe the ice records go back 600,000 years from what i remember. humans have only been on the planet maybe 60-80K years. I dont have a reference on it. if someone can find one that agrees or disagrees please post it.

the whole GW is a religion is a BS attempt by those who disagree to discredit by mocking something. On the otherhand there are many on both sides who have done no research or even attempted to understand whats going on and just play follow the leader.

[Rafael Rothschild]

Hey Cobraby, long article.

but still tells nothing new (except that the author believes that Global warming is being created by human activity)

The real questions here are:

1.-Even is fosil fuel burning is responsible for some of the increase; how are we going
to stop it? by asking you not to drive? by asking canadians to stop using heating
oil? by purchasing products via internet, which do not need to be delivered by
truck? or perhaps, by a campaign to stop world tourism, because planes use too
much fuel?. Or yet, I have a better one... ask every couple not to have children,
who will be the future polluters of these planet. I REALLY LIKE THAT ONE!!!

2.-Perhaps, we need to stop creating nuclear power plants, and go back to wood
burning stoves?... oops, sorry, this will create deforestation, BAD IDEA.

3.-The more I think about solutions, the more I go back to trust nature to take care
of itself (and us along the way)

4.-Everyone, at one time or another, has heard about deforestation, as one of the
main probable causes of global warming; however, I have never heard about
stopping building and/or expanding cities. Cities around the world, with millions of
square miles of asphalt, are far more responsible for global warming than anything
that has ever been discussed. OK, let's all go back to the country, on hoseback.

Hey, I'm willing to learn how to ride a horse.

[Rafael Rothschild]

Sorry SJH

Relativity stopped being a theory in 1922, when scientists could prove that light bends when affected by the gravitational force of nearby objects.

sorry about that one

[Rafael Rothschild]

What's more relativity "was" (not anymore) a theory of measurement, which explain the disagrements of observers traveling in different frames of reference.

[Rafael Rothschild]

But, if you need any additional information regarding relativity, I will be happy to send you an essay (in spanish) which I wrote 10 years ago; so a 10 year old could understand it, without the calculus or algebra formulas.

[cobraboy]

Frankly, many of the True Believers need to be mocked to get them to look at things objectively. But my description of GW being a religion does have some merit. After all, they call those who don't follow lock-step with the True Believer Herd "deniers". Isn't that just another form of trying to force compliance? Isn't that mocking?

And I've yet to hear from the True Believers what role the CHANGING NATURE AND CYCLES OF THE SUN...you know, that big ball of nuclear energy in the sky that CAUSES the temperature on the planet in the first place, the SOURCE of "warming"...plays in the .7 degree planetary increase in temperature . Something tells me it's a little more influential than my behemoth 1000hp SUV belching carbonized burnt children, butterfiles and cute puppies into the atmosphere*.

Truly objective people searching for facts and research would WANT to watch that TV documentary. Heck, I've seen Algores movie and the True Believer data. That must make ME more open minded that the True Believers.

Now excuse me while I chainsaw down an old growth forest. I want to make some spears to take on a manatee hunt. Besides, I have a taste for spotted owl this evening...












*Disclaimer for the humorless: This is a joke. I'm pretending the children, puppies and butterflies created fossil fuel like the dinosaurs and other organic matter from a bazillion years ago did. Liberal literary license, you know...

[Rafael Rothschild]

Cobraboy
of course that your description of GW being a religion has merit.

For one, it ridiculizes the unproven, it's not fear mongering, and lastly, we need more people who are less influenced by the media and their cloonies with their 3 pigs and bad wolf stories.