Disagreements over the Science Behind Global Climate Change

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not that climate science is defined by Florida's citrus industry, but when I was an adult, I read this piece and figured out that the frost line did not 'creep south', but that freezes in the area is a relatively common occurrence. What did creep south, is the risk management of the growers. They prefer to establish groves where there is less of a risk, i.e, further south.

"While freezes of the severity of those of 1983, 1985 and December 1989 are extremely rare events, freezes of sufficient severity to damage fruit, blossoms and new growth and to kill trees planted in relatively risky 'cold pockets' are a rather common occurrence in much of Florida's traditional citrus-growing region. Since the beginning of the century, ca 50 freezes of varying intensities have been recorded in Florida's major commercial citrus areas (Florida Crop and Livestock Reporting Service undated, 1988)."

But I am interesting in your portrayal of climate science as a "world-wide government control". Perhaps you can expand on that a little?

I agree that Time is pushing it with these provocative and fear-mongering type headlines. I guess journalistic standards have moved South as well.

So tell me, Chris, were those hundreds of thousands of acres of citrus groves in North Central FL, and all the support industries, planted there all of a sudden? Were the trees, many of which were 10-20 years old when the frost killed them, planted fully mature there?

My comment is from being a long-time FL resident who actually saw miles of those groves, now dead, in the 1950's.

So why didn't the young, tender saplings grow to be productive groves for so many years?

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

Because I pay attention to ALL the facts and science, not just those cherry-picked from the sources I agree with.

It's out there, Chris. It's up to you to open your mind and let it go into your noggin.

Scientists and others are bailing off the Church of Man Made Global Warming Express.

This has been discussed over and over and over and over and over...

Just wondering, are you a member of The Flat Earth Society????

[CFA123]

I don't doubt the data showing an upward trend in temperatures. The earth has always gone through warming and cooling periods. What I tend to doubt is the significant impact of humans upon the changes.

Why is there so little discussion of the sun's impact on climate change? 'Scientists Clueless over Sun's Effect on Earth' May ,2005 Scientists Clueless over Sun's Effect on Earth | LiveScience "Scientists don't know much about how sunlight interacts with our planet, and until they understand it, they can't accurately predict any possible effects of human activity on climate change."

Also, always fun to throw this into a discussion of how scientists & group think have a history of being wrong... In 1970 the World Meteorological Organization warned about global cooling, and then of course there's Newsweek in 1975.


1 vote for global cooling, please.

[Chris]

I'm in complete despair! Over to you Keith!

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm in complete despair! Over to you Keith!

Chris, with two Masters degrees, I'll match intelligence and critical analysis with anyone.

There is a MASSIVE body of the written word out there that makes swiss cheese out of the "settled science" of MMGW. Once before a few links were posted; obviously ~some~ folks ignored them.

When I was a kid, I wanted to believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, too.

I'll be more impressed with the MMGW groupthinkers when they spend the greater part of their energy going after China and India for ~their~ massive filthy spew instead of the good folks in the West.

BTW, Chris, I get very little from the U.S. or International MSM (aka the "drive-by media" by some). They proved to me a long time ago to promote an agenda and ignore competing ideas. But they haven't changed...ever. Fact is much more is now available in the "interwebs".

[Chris]

Thank Heavens! A real answer! I'm getting out of the state of despair

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Thank Heavens! A real answer! I'm getting out of the state of despair Do you think on this note, now that you've posted something more than a few 'fall-out-of-the-mouth' inane one-liners, a discussion would be too much to hope for? I promise I will ignore the jab on the 'snide comments' in the interests of fruitful discussion. Not a political discussion, but a 'what is really happening' type discussion. Because at the outset to consider this a socialists/Marxists/anti-capitalists ploy, for world dominion, really is funny! But it does not compute.

Sorry, Chris, it's been discussed quite often.

But I find it quite interesting you want to discuss the Religion of MMGW on YOUR terms, which excludes those areas you don't want to hear about: economics and politics.

[Chris]

Never said anything about economics. Economics is part of a discussion. Politics, well, for an open discussion yes. But a discussion that starts with Religion and Politics will be thrown off of this board quickly.

It is not political that the poles are melting and causing a rise in levels of ocean. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political that we are looking to a great scarcity of food in some areas in the world, for various reasons, most of them to do with ecology. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political that the old growth forests are still burning or being depleted. It is also not debatable, as it is happening.
It is not political that the fish in the oceans are depleting. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political that fresh water is depleting. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political ... well, you get the drift. And nary a politician is to be found with a real vision let along a workable plan toward fixing these small niggly little things.

If we are looking to political solutions, I think we're already barking up a wrong tree. Governments or Leadership (left, right, center or esoteric) have not garnered either my respect or my willingness to believe in the political process for specific solutions.

Anyway, for others it may be a religion. Perhaps in your country that is the way that it plays out. In my circles, it is not. Serious .. Yes! Worthy of some action, whether simply personal or larger in a collective sense .. Yes! People and environment have always been part of my life. If that is political, then it is so. Somebody should however try and convince me that a lifelong interest in the environment and how people live in it, makes me a left leaning pinko commie something interested in world dominion. I think that there are better current contenders for that specific throne.

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by Chris

It is not political that the poles are melting and causing a rise in levels of ocean. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political that we are looking to a great scarcity of food in some areas in the world, for various reasons, most of them to do with ecology. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political that the old growth forests are still burning or being depleted. It is also not debatable, as it is happening.
It is not political that the fish in the oceans are depleting. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political that fresh water is depleting. It is also not debatable as it is happening.
It is not political ... well, you get the drift. And nary a politician is to be found with a real vision let along a workable plan toward fixing these small niggly little things.

The thing is this Chris, hard Libertarians and acolytes of Ayn Rand like Cobraboy think that man has nothing to do with the above problems.....the sun is the the culprit. Heaven forbid if we were to blame it on the smooth running capitalist system that has by and large made the world what it is today. According to them we need more laissez faire!

[cobraboy]

Algore Mixes Politics and Venture Capital