What the DR Can/Should Do Regarding Global Climate Change

[bob saunders]

Originally Posted by Keith R

Actually, a physicist recently said to me that that there are parts of the theory of relativity still under debate and parts we suspect are true but cannot fully verify. Also, my father, a retired MD, frequently tells me that many of the things he learned in science & medicine as "absolute, verified truths" several decades ago have since been found wrong.

But just because full consensus on the science in any field is elusive if not impossible, does that mean you cannot or should not act on the best state of knowledge available to you at the time?

And given the projected lead times necessary to make any notable impact on climate change, doesn't continued delay simply make it more impossible to influence the outcome?

Did I not say we can individually do our part to low our personal pollution and consumption to lessen our negative effect on the earth. Having read considerable but not all articles, the evidence to me points towards a climatic upswing in temperature but then I read another dozen articles by reputable scientists and believe the opposite, so coming to my own conclusions as I must, I don't believe we are causing global warming, but I believe we are contributing to killing the oceans and ourselves with pollution.

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

As a former Boy Scout and lifetime outdoorsman, I have always followed one simple, but effective, rule: leave the campsite better than how you found it. This includes our carbon-based orb. We'd all be better off if we just followed that one simple policy.

I too was a Boy Scout and am a lifelong camper, as is my son now (almost an Eagle). You forget the other part of the Boy Scout credo: be prepared. That, I think, should be guiding how we look at the global climate change debate: hope that the predictions are wrong -- at least in severity or timelines -- but prepare as if they may not be.

I have teenage kids, and I wonder what world they and their own kids are going to have. I know, I know, I must be one of those wanting to rule the world by caring about such things, right? Nope. I do think, though, about what it would be like to have my grandkids some day ask me why my generation sat on its hands and debated every fine point about global climate change instead of acting to take what steps they can while they still can, based on best knowledge at the time and steps that make good sense for other reasons (like the examples I gave before, higher energy & fuel efficiency, more use of renewable energy sources, reduction of wasting and waste, etc.)

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Keith R

I too was a Boy Scout and am a lifelong camper, as is my son now (almost an Eagle). You forget the other part of the Boy Scout credo: be prepared. That, I think, should be guiding how we look at the global climate change debate: hope that the predictions are wrong -- at least in severity or timelines -- but prepare as if they may not be.

I have NO problem in being prepared, Keith. But I don't want an international NGO forcing me to pay for the preparation of someone else in another country over dubious, at best, science.

[bob saunders]

Originally Posted by Keith R

Nope. I do think, though, about what it would be like to have my grandkids some day ask me why my generation sat on its hands and debated every fine point about global climate change instead of acting to take what steps they can while they still can, based on best knowledge at the time and steps that make good sense for other reasons (like the examples I gave before, higher energy & fuel efficiency, more use of renewable energy sources, reduction of wasting and waste, etc.)

Yes, but not carbon trading, or the way I think of it; paying cash for your ability to continue to pollute.

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by bob saunders

Yes, but not carbon trading, or the way I think of it; paying cash for your ability to continue to pollute.

Even I have my doubts about carbon trading and so-called carbon offsets, but that probably should be the focus of a separate thread.

[Robert]

cobraboy, keep out of this thread. Any more posts and they will be deleted by me.

The moderators set the agenda and tone of this forum, period.
If you have a problem with that, I suggest you stop posting in this forum.

If anyone rants about the UN, Chavez, Bush or anything that is not 100% environment related, consider your access to this forum terminated.

Is that clear enough, of would you like me to type it in BIG letters?

Sometimes it feels like I'm herding cats!

[Chris]

This is becoming too long, but for those who want to know .. What are we doing personally.
We eat organic.
We are not totally vegetarian but we do not have a lot of meat.
If we have meat, we know where it comes from. We understand the food production from where it is grown, up to our table.
This last summer, I had an agreement with a community supported organic farmer .. I took all her produce that she could not take to market, and I processed it. The processed food (bottled, dried or fermented and bottled) were offered to the community that support the farm at cost. In this way, we used the excess or the produce not 'pretty' enough for market and benefited our local community.
We drive a smaller car and have a ride-share amongst the local community. No-one in this community drives alone but we plan our journeys so that two or three people can take the same journey.
For purchasing, we're trying a '100-year' rule. We're buying only that which will last 100 years, or is completely bio-degradable. This is an eye opener and of course it is not very successful, but it serves as a learning process for this community where I find myself temporarily. The purchase of a new computer really is a difficult thing and it forces one to think!

Personally my belief in life is don't harm the earth because my food comes from there, enrich the earth, compost, do companion planting on a permaculture basis, don't use excessively, purchase only from like-minded people, eat locally and support a local community cooperative. Reduce waste, so, if I go grocery buying we take our own bags and we don't buy if the purchase is going to cause unnecessary waste or excess packaging. I recycle all bottles and use it for canning and storing. Re-use .. this community has a informal bottle exchange so, if someone wants to make say wine .. all of us donate our bottles. Where possible, we buy from bulk stores bringing our own glass containers (oils, grains, vinegars, peanut butter and such stuff). We've taken out all plastics in our house. (My father-in-law was to a great extent a pioneer in the plastics and oil by-products industry, so, this led to some very interesting conversations).

This past year we used air travel way too much and this coming year this will be reduced. So, this is what we're doing personally. At some stage I can outline the benefits and what we've found changed in our lives.

For the DR and the area around it? That conversation is still outstanding.

[Chirimoya]

I attended a seminar earlier this year with contributions from several US environmental scientists who made the point that the DR had the potential to release itself from its almost total dependence on fuel imports. Never mind CC/GW whatever you want to call it, it makes economic and geo-political as well as environmental sense. For all countries, not just the DR!

The government's latest set of fuel saving measures are very feeble in comparison with what could be done. I'm also very wary of the enthusiasm with which they are throwing themselves into ethanol production, bearing in mind the potential effect on food prices and other unpleasant environmental side effects.

I totally agree that it's crucial to practice what we preach on a personal level. I have consciously lived as 'green' as possible since the mid-1980s, well before that Gore fellow everyone keeps talking about came on the scene. Along with all the other usual food and waste related lifestyle choices, I resisted owning a car until the age of 35. But I know that there are many things that I could improve (especially air-miles...), and that external changes - like better urban planning in the city I live in - also have to take place.

[Keith R]

Originally Posted by Chip

As an engineer and someone who actually is required by law to protect the environment and who spends many hours every year designing stormwater management systems that keep our water clean I think I am qualified enough to say that I care about our environment and this topic interests me. As a scientist familiar with the scientific process I don't feel that the global warming agenda has passed sufficiently the peer review process given a variety of factors to include that periods of relatively high and low surface temperatures of the earth have occurred without the influence of man.

I furthermore would love to continue in this thread and discuss what can be done in the DR with regard to environmental issues. However, being a person of principal I find it disconcerting that real discourse is so vehemently discouraged not to mention undignified to have to put up with such heavy handedness. This, imo, limits the potential of threads like this to actually make a difference.

Perhaps the answer is to split this thread in two -- one just on scientific questions regarding man's role in global climate change, the other on what I think the OP intended -- what the DR should consider doing in relation to climate change. It would not be easy to perform the surgery, but I am willing to try.

However, before I even attempt it, I want it plainly understood by all DR1ers -- no exceptions -- that the put-downs and type of hype about religion, international conspiracies to control the world, etc. would be deleted. What I am saying is that if you truly want to have an in-depth conversation on DR1 about the scientific uncertainties involved with climate science, fine. All could do it in that thread to their heart's content, if sans the diatribes, name-calling, etc. Those who could not follow those simple rules would be edited, deleted and ultimately banned if they persist despite warnings.

Likewise, if anyone tries to bring the debate from the other thread into the one on what the DR should do, they would be edited, deleted, and if necessary, banned. No exceptions.

As moderator, I would retain the option to close the threads if either or both gets out of hand.

That's my offer, and BTW, far, far more than management has advised me to do. Take it or leave it.

[Chip]

Consensus being the prelude to action, wouldn't it seem to make more sense to look for common ground themes like what can people actually do other than complain in their daily lives to make a difference. There is a lot to be done with that regard here in the DR, IMO real things that could make a difference like I mentioned before - visible "adopt a street" activities for all of the locals to see and a recycled oil business.