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  #31  
Old 04-12-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gurabenogringas View Post
so, if we're really concerned, shouldn't we stop writing and start acting? what does it cost to teach people? nothing. i know it's not easy, but complaining or generalizing isn't going to help anyone.
You have a valid point... Your post is well informative.
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  #32  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:12 PM
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Perhaps unlike most on here I have a full time job In Santo Domingo....
Nice words but the river is still blocked anyone got an Idea on how to get it cleaned quickly??????

Skippy1
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  #33  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy1 View Post
Perhaps unlike most on here I have a full time job In Santo Domingo....
Nice words but the river is still blocked anyone got an Idea on how to get it cleaned quickly??????

Skippy1
I have a full time job too - perhaps the only difference is that I don't get paid for doing mine

Last edited by whirleybird; 04-12-2008 at 07:21 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:24 PM
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Whirley your job is far more important than mine and If could I would make sure you were paid a large fortune but then you would still spend it on the dogs and it would not make any difference to you......well you would be happier at being able to do more pm me and I will see if I cant get you some support from the office we have a few brits there all dog lovers like us.

Skippy1
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  #35  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:28 PM
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Chris Level 2 Chris Level 2 (122)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy1 View Post
Perhaps unlike most on here I have a full time job In Santo Domingo....
Nice words but the river is still blocked anyone got an Idea on how to get it cleaned quickly??????

Skippy1
Yes I have a few ideas.

Idea one - Get a group together and go out for a Saturday Cleanup (get the necessary authorities and bring a few eco minded groups together while you're about it. If you search and read on how the Santiago cleanup was done, you'll get many ideas.
Figure out where the nearest incinerator is, or ask Keith. Arrange for transportation of the picked up garbage to the incinerator.
After a hard day of picking up and cleaning, everyone would be thirsty and a beer together would be nice - a good neighbourly feeling can also be engendered.

Idea two - Find out where the Secretaría de Estado de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales office is. Take the photos and go and show them .. tell and ask them what to do. I bet they won't know what to do with you and you'll get very frustrated. Get really mad and revert to Idea one.

Idea three - There are posters on the site who have Dominican spouses involved in green initiatives in the DR. Ask them to talk with their spouses and give some guidance as to how to handle the problem.

Welcome to the DR.
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  #36  
Old 04-12-2008, 08:01 PM
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Tried number two and you are right useless bunch of idiots. maybe I should change my approach like crept up with a bag full of Dollars and told them its from the government slush fund.

will work on number one.

Not holding out much hope on number three as you can see no response from concerned Dominican Ladies here yet.

Skippy1 not feeling so skippy at the moment..........lol
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  #37  
Old 04-13-2008, 12:27 AM
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Keith R Level 2 Keith R Level 2 (102)
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I hope that everyone (even my fellow moderators) will keep this civil and results- and solution-oriented.

Speaking as someone who writes/works a heckuva lot on waste issues in Latin America and the Caribbean (LAC), I have to say that it's a complex, multi-faceted problem with no quick-and-easy solutions, especially in a place like the DR. Not a cop-out, just the hard truth.

To start with in the case of the DR, you have the infrastructure problems. Some municipalities have no real trash collection, many others with totally nuts trash collection contracts that are often more about patronage (i.e., getting primo a lucrative income stream) than providing citizens with reliable, quality service. And then there is the not-so-insubstantial problem that many people never pay for their trash collection, even when they receive it. When I lived in SD, our neighborhood had collection twice a week (we never knew what time of day it'd be, but at least which two days of the week!), but many of my neighbors never paid their bills for it, even though they could well afford it. So trash collection was always in financial trouble...

There are still no true sanitary landfills in the DR, although the Fernandez Administration is trying to build some in places like Puerto Plata Province -- and facing the kind of "not in my backyard" (NIMBY) neighborhood resistance one sees across LAC and in the US as well. The largest disposal site in the DR -- SD's "Duquesa" -- is a dump that the government hired Brazilian consultants to convert into "manual" or "controlled" landfill that at least meets some minimal standards.

There are NO -- none, zip, zero, nil -- proper treatment and disposal facilities for hazardous waste in the DR, including radioactive, infectious, toxic. Further, there are no real incinerators or waste-to-energy plants, although plenty of proposals, many of which are frankly dubious and I worry about proper monitoring, supervision and enforcement of emission limits.

Composting in the DR is mostly personal and small-scale. I know of some municipality administrations -- such as San Francisco de Macoris -- that wanted to start municipal-scale projects, but could not get enough support (including possible end-users for the compost) to go through with it.

And last but far from least in the infrastructure dept., there is the lack of recovery and recycling operations in the DR. Why does recycling seem to work in Brazil, but not the DR? In large part because Brazil has the metals, cellulose/board/paper, rubber and plastics industries that can take advantage of collected and recovered materials.

Can you really effectively promote recycling without having recyclers and a local or nearby market for recovered materials? There is some potential for development of this in the DR, I feel, but so far it's difficult to get Dominican businessmen and politicians very excited about it...

There's also how the waste profile in the DR is changing. 30, 20 maybe even 10 years ago if you have done a compositional analysis of the household waste in the DR, you would have found high organic (food, yard waste, etc.) content -- maybe as high as 75% -- that was potentially compostable, but this profile is rapidly changing toward inorganics (metals, plastics, etc.). And more refillable glass food and beverage containers being replaced by plastics, for which there is currently no recycling in the DR. [By the way, polystyrene -- what you tend to call syrofoam, which actually is a trademark name -- IS recyclable, and there are facilities for that in the US. But none in the DR.]

Then there's the education angle. The DR schools are making some timid starts, but they could do so much more. Unfortunately, as someone mentioned above, this is a long-term process. I remember a severe litter problem in the US before the Keep America Beautiful Campaign was launched (I was a kid then, but already interested in environmental issues). Things have improved alot over 35 years, but litter has not disappeared in the US. As dramatic as Skippy's pictures are, I saw something not too far from it in a local Virginia creek I cleaned up with my kids about a year ago. Wish it wasn't so, but it is.

And as someone else pointed out, littering is a problem in most poor countries. I can certainly vouch for that being true in LAC nations. Major municipalities in some countries (even the DF in SD) are fighting it with education, PR campaigns, etc., with mixed success. But they all recognize that it is a long haul with slow, incremental change.

BTW, I can vouch that littering is done by Dominicans across the board, not just the poor and lower middle class. I have seen it with my own eyes.

I could write (another) book on it the waste problem in LAC in general and DR in particular, and probably should. But hopefully I've made my point about how multi-faceted the DR's waste problem is.

There are things we can do, but we need to work together, be innovative, be conscious that it will take time and dedication, and above all, find ways to get Dominicans involved and helping to lead the change. It can't be done entirely or even mostly by expats -- that will probably doom it to failure.

Sobered by harsh realities but still willing to take on the waste challenge in the DR,
Keith R
Environment Forum Moderator

Last edited by Keith R; 04-13-2008 at 06:40 PM.
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  #38  
Old 04-13-2008, 08:42 AM
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pyratt Level 1 (10)
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Simple solution:

50 gallon barrel
Charcoal fluid
A match

It's done all over the Caribbean....why are the streets of JARBACOA pristine? I was there for 2 weeks in December. The place is spotless, even in the outlying barrios and fincas.
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  #39  
Old 04-13-2008, 09:02 AM
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Wow Keith where were you ......
All I have ever wanted was a way to get ,help or find someone/something to clean up this mess. I am not bothered who or how.
I am not an enviromental specialist just a concerned user of this planet. But for your intervention shall we say I was about to give up and leave the people to their fate (yes theirs not mine I could not live like this no matter how good the beaches are)

The information and analysis of the problem is excellent and very informative. I have no doubt you are extremely well acustomed to the difficulties (unlike me)
Perhaps together we can find a solution?

Thinking about this, the problem was more to do with sewerage waste until it was cleared by a mechanical digger a few weeks ago. I am beginning to suspect someone may have benefited financially from the clean up and is now looking for another reward or payday.....my suspicious mind at work.
So hence the reason for that statement as I do not want to (if possible) get back into the same situation in another few weeks time.
So Keith if you have some contacts or direct lines of communication can you advise on who what where to go and see, talk, or pay?
I will be much obliged for anything you can to get me on the right road.

Skippy1
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  #40  
Old 04-13-2008, 09:57 AM
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Having thought and mulled over Keith's excellent post a bit...

Ok a solution for trash....sorry its not going to sort out the river quite yet.

There is a problem here with not only the trash (rubbish) collection but also the power (electricity). The Barrios have a reputation for theft shall we say.

How about the electricity companies invest in CHP (combined heat and power) plants then use the rubbish collected from the barrios to fuel their own supply still free to them gratis as its self powered so to speak ...no waste collected no electricity simple as that.
I am sure that the excess power which will be paid for by the honest customers would also allow some investment in education and some salaried collection staff.
Even if it was not true that the amount of waste could supply the whole barrio it would do no harm to let them believe it is. A few days of no power and you would find them lining up to hand over all their waste to get the Colmado Music machines back online.
Simplistic maybe but I am sure the likes of Keith could do a thesis on it and find a way to make the numbers stack up.
The idea came to me when I remembered a project I worked on in Namibia southern Africa. The water had to come from a very deep well and it supplied the whole village. They had no power and the nearest supply was 100 miles or so away.
Solar power and diesel pumps were ok but unreliable. as they could not afford to buy diesel and the cloud cover could last for days.
Solution hand pump. but with a twist the pump was turned into a merry go round for the children in the school playground.....boundless energy from the children pumped water into the Main storage tank that fed the village.
When the water was low they just sent the kids out to play.
This system is now recognised as a good workable solution and now widely used through out small remote communities in africa.

Skippy1

Last edited by Skippy1; 04-13-2008 at 10:01 AM. Reason: spelling
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