Waste Waste Wate Waste Waste And Waste

[Chip]

Originally Posted by pyratt

Simple solution:

50 gallon barrel
Charcoal fluid
A match

It's done all over the Caribbean....why are the streets of JARBACOA pristine? I was there for 2 weeks in December. The place is spotless, even in the outlying barrios and fincas.

Jarabacoa unfortunately seems to be an enigma. It would be great if other communities could do a thrid of what they have done. More important than picking up the trash is education the locals and having sufficient public wastebins available. Without the latter two it will only be a short time before the ground is littered again.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Skippy1

Even if it was not true that the amount of waste could supply the whole barrio it would do no harm to let them believe it is. A few days of no power and you would find them lining up to hand over all their waste to get the Colmado Music machines back online.

Skippy1, it is the tone that I object to. The subtle disrespect for the people. The thought that we can 'coerce them with music' to 'hand over their waste'. Frankly, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I lose all the value of the possible innovative solution, in trying to swallow the insult to the people. But back to business ..

The normal Dominican household has generally little waste outside of the empty chloro bottles . These households do not use stacks of polystyrene. Keith says that the trash profile of the average Dominican household is changing and I believe that, but still overall I would say households generate less than the small businesses, i.e., the colmados and the paradas.

There is no real method of recycling the polystyrene in the DR. So Pyratt's way of burning it is the only way currently to get rid of the stuff. It is a messy job and certainly not 'a friendly disposal', as you asked for initially.

I will say again, get a few organizations involved, get your friends involved, speak to media ambiente and 'get their approval' to clean up. Go out on a Saturday and clean up. You arrange for bags and gloves (be careful and caution everyone .. we don't know what kind of trash it is). Bag it, transport it to where it can be burnt and have it burnt.

[Chris]

double post ..

[Squat]

Originally Posted by Chris

Skippy1, it is the tone that I object to. The subtle disrespect for the people. The thought that we can 'coerce them with music' to 'hand over their waste'.

Skippy1 is being too frank. He is writing down the evidence, and it is not politically correct...

[Skippy1]

Skippy1 doesn't mean to offend anyone. But Skippy1 writes lives and speaks in a world where straight talking and a sense of humour keeps him sane.

Be as sensitive and as compasionate as you like but the big bad world outside is not a place of just dinner parties, cocktails and sunny barbeques on the beach. Its big bad mean old world where sensitivity counts for nothing when you are trying to compete for scarce resources, jobs and investment. Its a place where you die if your skin colour doesn't fit or you religion is not accepted. Even if you have a Harvard degree and a masters in double speak and deception.

Bold brash tell it like it is ....I am sorry if the truth hurts. But I am more worried about appeasers who pretend they are doing something when if fact they are not doing any more than scratch the surface as a token gesture, to make them feel better. People who would rather score the "I'm in tune with local life bit" than try and help with advice to an obviously concerned party who's only interest is the enviroment and its effect on us ALL.
I have no interest in breaking into elite social groups or making a big splash as a Santiago Celeb..... bedding as many local women as I can and brag about it on the boards like its a badge of honour. Is that the sensitivity you are talking about?

Skippy1

[Chip]

Skippy

I for my part like to "tell it like it is" and I like new ideas too, but if you live here in the DR and speak the language you would know that the idea forcefully making people pick up trash by cutting off their power/music is an idea as ludcrous as they come. Better yet, let's be pragmatists and realist. With that in mind, give us something we can really work with.

regards

chip

[Chirimoya]

Skippy, although many of us share your concerns, your implication that other posters are 'all mouth and no trousers' when it comes to the environment is doing you no favours.

Many of us, and Chris is a prominent example, have done a great deal for the environment and the people here. You're getting advice, based on actual experience, so why the attack? You could try searching on 'La Ensenada', 'Punta Rucia' or 'Reef Watch', for starters.

Many others will tell you - again, from experience - that the locals do not take too kindly to foreigners coming in and telling them how to do it. This is essential knowledge if any initiative is to succeed. The other essential piece of knowledge is that overnight results are not guaranteed. It's a long process, and there are things that we as outsiders can do to help it along, but going in with all guns blazing is counterproductive.

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

but going in with all guns blazing is counterproductive.

And this applies to any situation here, not just trash solutions. Going in enthusiastically yet humbly seems to achieve things, though. But before one can do that one has to rid oneself of any missionary zeal that one 'knows best' and sometimes that can take new expats a while to achieve. So maybe it is better to wait a while until the anger subsides and the helping effort is genuinely facilitative & enabling? All the while knowing that one's frustration IS understood by other expats.

[Skippy1]

Originally Posted by Chip

Skippy

I for my part like to "tell it like it is" and I like new ideas too, but if you live here in the DR and speak the language you would know that the idea forcefully making people pick up trash by cutting off their power/music is an idea as ludcrous as they come. Better yet, let's be pragmatists and realist. With that in mind, give us something we can really work with.

regards

chip

Ok Chip, the idea was not to force anyone but more to entice them with the carrot not the stick. Carrot is free electricity and jobs....these people can clean other streets not just their own. The householders would not have to pay either so no probs collecting the money.
I am sure Chris is right that the average household does not produce enough waste but other industries do like sugar cane and other agricultural operations. The city certainly does produce more than enough waste.

The point being and the suggestion is that for a company like Edesur or the others it is a question of how to make a profit. They are in a battle it seems with some barrios where they are cutting power as punishment beatings....its true I lived in such an area where even the paying customers were subjected to 10 hours power blackouts daily.

It is not inconcievable that a financial model can be created that would kill two or more birds with one stone.
Improve rubbish collection improve the enviroment, create jobs attract more investment from outside. Maybe even go for being self sustaining.
The idea of connecting the free supply to the quality and efficientcy of the rubbish collection is a positive not a negative.
Its not a total solution its a start and a model not of my making but is already being used in the world as we speak.
Sorry but I am not a caring sensitive person to the good meaning but maybe misguided individuals who what sticking plaster clean up solutions.

The only way to make it work is to make it pay......simple truth world wide.
If you have the contacts and the money you might think of it as an opportunity not another means of bashing the highly sensitive tigre and his mom. Not seen any I would regard as sensitive mind you more the opposite.

Skippy1

[Skippy1]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Skippy, although many of us share your concerns, your implication that other posters are 'all mouth and no trousers' when it comes to the environment is doing you no favours.

Many of us, and Chris is a prominent example, have done a great deal for the environment and the people here. You're getting advice, based on actual experience, so why the attack? You could try searching on 'La Ensenada', 'Punta Rucia' or 'Reef Watch', for starters.

Many others will tell you - again, from experience - that the locals do not take too kindly to foreigners coming in and telling them how to do it. This is essential knowledge if any initiative is to succeed. The other essential piece of knowledge is that overnight results are not guaranteed. It's a long process, and there are things that we as outsiders can do to help it along, but going in with all guns blazing is counterproductive.

If you read all the historical postings here you will see i started off looking for help when nothing was forthcoming I became a little disappointed to say the least. I do not want to upset anyone its not my prime function in life.
I at not time ever thought about being a foriegner and telling the people what to do all I wanted was help to get this story to the right department to get something done for the good of everyone not just me. The over whelming apathy drove me to distraction......big time.
For my pain I got a lecture in etiquete. There have been a few off board

conversations you may not know about too.

Skippy1