Democracy and Capitalism

[arcangel]

I live in NY, I was born and raised in DR. I am 24 years old and a civil engineering student in City College. Although not versed in Economics I have worked as an operations manager in a very large chain store. I took Microeconomics and Macroeconomics in school trying to understand better the capitalist world view and the concept of globalization. Globalization was sold to me back when I was still in DR as an imperfect system, full of flaws, but that if free market were to rule in the entire world the jobs will go to the most productive, knowledgeable individuals, regardless of color, culture, religion, or political view.

It sounded like it could work so here I am thousand of days later in a land estrange to mine, but that nevertheless I have learned to respect and cherish for what it is: the land of opportunity, not the land of the free, not the capital of the world. Opportunity: A favorable or advantageous circumstance or combination of circumstances. I saw a possibility of “free” health care, of a “better” education, the understanding of a “broader perspective.

So today after what I have seen, read and heard, I have come to an inevitable conclusion Democracy and Capitalism can not work together at least not in worldwide scale. I am sure that most will disagree, but it seems that although the Capitalist system is only as good as its players, one can’ not argue that more and more multinationals conglomerates are taking over the entire recourses of the world. Here is a scary fact 50 multinational corporations and 50 developed countries have more money than the rest of the world today. I am not interested in whose fault it is, I already know that EVERYBODY’S. My concern is what do we do to fix this system that evidently has not worked for more than a century but more likely it will never work.

Democracy rests on the education of the citizens to make decisions and to elect leaders to represent and protect their interest. This of course the short version and thorough the history of my DR, I can see how educating the majority of the population Democracy works. Ex. How by increasing the civic education, citizens are more likely to get involved in the political process, therefore less likely to sell their vote for a demagogue speech.
Capitalism as an economic system argues that government intervention in the economy should be restricted and that a free market, based on supply and demand, will ultimately maximize consumer welfare. This is also true. But like its predecessor Mercantilism, it fails to address that the economic power resides in the hand of the few changing hands from time to time depending on certain technological revolutions, ex. The industrial revolutions, the internet boom, etc.

People educated in Economics understand that ones income should be spent in local or partners businesses. Since is very unlikely that foreigners investors will come in to your town open business and spend the profits in the same town. Japanese, Chinisse, Arabs, Indians, European Jews, White Supremacist, and others have gone that way even when it made more economic sense to spend their money on the cheaper store. Why does a Dominican rather go to a non Dominican business even if it makes no economic sense?
Can all poor blacks, poor Latinos and progressives in the US unite economically with the underdeveloped countries and start putting our money where our mouths are?

I could be dreaming or is this possible?, if not, it seems that the richest corporations and countries will keep the underdeveloped countries at bay. Some of you probably have argued this before, but on the light of the near end of this oil age, it seems important to explore the different options we have. I for one will rather get rid of Capitalism than Democracy

[chuckuindy]

Originally Posted by arcangel

. I for one will rather get rid of Capitalism than Democracy

I am not so sure that you can have one with out the other.

Chuckuindy

[NALs]

Originally Posted by chuckuindy

I am not so sure that you can have one with out the other.

Chuckuindy

IMO,

you can have capitalism without democracy (this was the case with Fascim, hardly democracy but was based on capitalistic economies, also modern China is a great example), but you can't have democracy without capitalism.

However, growth of capitalism and wealth has a tendency of making non-democratic places more democratic. This is evident everywhere, but for a more obvious example look at China. The areas that have prospered are now the areas demanding more democratic principles and freedoms from the communist government.

The best way of toppling a non-democratic regime is by introducing Capitalism and increasing the wealth of its people. Even dictator Franco of Spain knew this, when he predicted that when Spain's GDP per capita reached US$2,000 he would probably lose his grip. By the time he did lost his grip, Spain was hoovering around that income level.

Similar occurences occured in Chile where Pinochet lost support and eventually was desposed once Chile's per capita income increased substancially.

-NAL

[mondongo]

arcangel, capitalism has major flaws, but no-one has come up with a better alternative.

very well written post, btw, especially for a young person. very good thought process.

[Don Juan]

Don't know for sure, but it seems that capitalism and socialism when combined, produces a system that best benefits the most people. In essence: a welfare state.
One major drawback though, is the high income taxes placed on the rest of the population, albeit this works well in the Scandinavian countries.
In DR, monies to cover this welfare system would have to come from taxes levied on something other than individuals residents, i,e, a 2% tax on remittances from expat Dominicans.
Democracy may not nessessarily be best for every nation, but when healthy and educated people are in command, they find ways come up with novel (beneficial) ways to govern themselves.
At present, capitalism is better for DR than any other known alternatives.

[Riu]

Originally Posted by arcangel

I saw a possibility of “free” health care, of a “better” education, the understanding of a “broader perspective.

I am sure by now you know, "better education" yes, free health care "NO".
Another quality of capitalism and democracy, action-reaction cause-effect, nothing is free in this system. If you receive a service you or someone else must pay for services rendered. Ex. U.S. social security is not free, helathcare is not free, even education in the U.S. is not free. These are services that citizen pay via taxes. It is a system where wealth allocation may not be fear across the board but at leas is spread out a little as opposed to other economic systems. You put it well when you say "LAND OF OPPORTUNITY".

[observer keen]

due to the fact that imperialism and capitalism have been linked historically, people tend to demonize the latter for its association with the former; but that is a fallacy in itself for it is not capitalism that is evil but rather some human elements in the system. capitalism in its ideal state would reward anyone with marketable skills and talents and it is the only economic system that is in accordance with the kantian concept of justice.
with a good government in place not directing the economy, but rather enforcing the laws agaisnt economic abuses, capitalism works optimally when coupled with some socialistic ideas_ norway and sweden have succeeded in demonstrating just that. One often underappreciated advantage of capitalism is that it creates an atmosphere for explosive creativity_ an individual is more likely to work long hours in lonely lab to find a cure for cancer if he/she is going to be recognized through a nobel prize than if his/her government were to demand that he/she do so for the sake of the world! given the fact that the human tendency is to be self-interested rather than ultruistic, an economic system that rewards individual rather group efforts is more likely to make breaktroughs, and consequently advance humanity. college professors know that quite well_ this is the reason that they would assign few group projects even though the real world is based on team work. it is worth noting that i do not even consider the " laissez faire economy of the early twentieth-century america" to be capitalism for it wasn't talent and innovation that were the dynamics of such an economy but rather brute force and cunnigness.

democracy?
it is a problem because people tend to believe that it is a fit-all type of shoe.
democracy would not generally do well in a poor corrupted country. contrary to popular misconception, democracy did not create european development; in fact it is rather the reverse that is true. wealth aquisition trough mercantilism and colonialism allowed the emergence of an educated middle class in europe( known collectively as bourgeois), and with education had come "challenging the statusquo".
with a very corrupted and poor country, democracy may work to preserve the very same things that keep that had impoverished the country in the first place. a rich corrupted candidate can bribe elections officials, and the electorate. have not realized that many poor countries had overwhelmingly elected drug-trafiquers. certain cartels in columbia would occupy an entire town with the will of the locals. look at slavery, it was a democratic institution in the south. was it right? of course not. history has demonstrated that "public clamor" is readily corrupted by ignorance and coersion_ one does not to go further than middleval europe and comtemorary africa to realize the truthfullness of that statement.
i personally think that a "transitional paternalistic dictatorial institution" is a better alternative for a poor corrupted country than mere democracy. i would overemphasize "transitional", for when the people under the benevolent paternalism of their "local talented tenth" become significantly educated ans self-sufficient, the paternalistic dictatorial institution should disolve itself to allow the formation of representative government by the universal suffrage concept.
this is not politically correct, but many politically incorrect concepts are indeed true. democracy is not always the best alternative!

[Don Juan]

i personally think that a "transitional paternalistic dictatorial institution" is a better alternative for a poor corrupted country than mere democracy. <quote>(observer keen)

But mostly, no. Trujillo. Duvalier, Mao,Allende, Peron, etc. were all "paternalistic dictators".They kept their corresponding countries in relative prosperity, stability & peace but all this came at a price in blood, torture, oppression, repression etc..... Would you want to live in a gilded cage?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by observer keen

.... i personally think that a "transitional paternalistic dictatorial institution" is a better alternative for a poor corrupted country than mere democracy. i would overemphasize "transitional", for when the people under the benevolent paternalism of their "local talented tenth" become significantly educated ans self-sufficient, the paternalistic dictatorial institution should disolve itself to allow the formation of representative government by the universal suffrage concept.
this is not politically correct, but many politically incorrect concepts are indeed true. democracy is not always the best alternative!

Interesting post overall. Specifically I have not heard anyone but myself say what you say in the quoted piece.. and I've stopped saying this, as it attracts just too much baggage and hipshooting. And benevolent dictatorial paternalism are the key words... Not dictatorial paternalism enriching the dictator... not 'dictatorship' as the term immediately brings a whole wealth of negative connotation with it... Benevolent dictatorial paternalism, i.e., leading, pushing, coercing unskilled and unable adults into a new order.

[mondongo]

Originally Posted by Chris

.....benevolent dictatorial paternalism are the key words... .....

I have a better chance at winning the Megabucks lottery tomorrow nite...actually, there is a better chance the whole DR population will hit the winning number at the same time.....