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  #31  
Old 01-04-2008, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RonS View Post
My question is: what is being done to plan for these natural and reocurring disastors before they occur?
We shall see...............Commission of Enquiry held its first meeting Thursday, next one January 17th. It agreed its agenda & appointed its committees of experts.
Noticias - Comisión de la presa de Tavera comienza labor

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Originally Posted by RonS View Post
Only the most synical can really believe that the catastrophe at Tavera was deliberate or that the President intended the death and destruction that followed. This was clearly a case of gross negligence, and I agree that those responsible should be held accountable.
Certainly Aristy Castro is weighing in on this one; like many he is calling the water release criminal & asking why the Government functionaries 'closed their ears' to the advice of the technical people.
Amable Aristy dice: “desagüe criminal” presa Tavera no quedará impune*

Now whether you call that 'deliberate' or not is debateable. If the hypothesis is 'did the President sit down & plan all this?' - probably not. Not too certain about some of his campaign organisers though................ It reminds me of a Roman Catholic childhood and having notions of 'culpable ignorance' instilled: i.e. lack of knowledge or understanding that results from the omission of ordinary care to acquire such knowledge or understanding. So in that sense if one is culpable when one has acted with indifference to consequences and to the rights of others, then something can be deliberate without being planned.

Interesting point RonS & thank you for raising it. Got me thinking.........
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2008, 09:48 AM
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Do you people really think you can plan for a Hurricane to the point where you can totally prevent death and disaster. Florida has excellent Hurricane planning in place with massive organization abilities and resources, and still when Hurricanes hit, they overwhelm with their forces and are unpredictable with how much rain, how much wind, what direction...etc. So if the technician that panicked and let too much water out had not done this, and the dam had actually let go, and caused 10 times the destruction and death would that be Leonel's fault. I've agree that someone needs to pay for the decision, but do you really think having a different government in place would have made a difference. Personally I have noticed a great deal of positives done by this government, at least in Jarabacoa and it is reformist country.
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  #33  
Old 01-07-2008, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bob saunders View Post
Do you people really think you can plan for a Hurricane to the point where you can totally prevent death and disaster. Florida has excellent Hurricane planning in place with massive organization abilities and resources, and still when Hurricanes hit, they overwhelm with their forces and are unpredictable with how much rain, how much wind, what direction...etc. So if the technician that panicked and let too much water out had not done this, and the dam had actually let go, and caused 10 times the destruction and death would that be Leonel's fault. I've agree that someone needs to pay for the decision, but do you really think having a different government in place would have made a difference. Personally I have noticed a great deal of positives done by this government, at least in Jarabacoa and it is reformist country.
Yes Bob you can...and I wrote a guide based on my education and expertise 2years ago. A guide that is endorsed on a responders knowledge database in the U.S., a database endorsed by DHS. I have lectured multiple response agencies in the U.S. (and now the DR) and my advice is very well received.

Unfortunately, the one time I put up my website here on DR1, it was removed and I was told I could write a plan for DR1 as a "labor of love"....I haven't time to rewrite it here....but you can read excerpts for free online at Amazon.

I just returned from three weeks in the DR (2 weeks in Jarabacoa, La Vega and Santiago....ONE in SD). I was finally (after four months of work), able to get certain products approved for sale to civilians that will help them prepare.

The DR government was offered the same products but wanted them "donated" after both storms TS Noel and Olga...it's the national creedo, "No hay un peso, tengo hombre"...extend your hand when you do it...it's like a salute. I met with officials after both storms, this is TRUE...my DR Importer was shocked when she heard this as the government had DONATED MONEY to buy items with! (Where's the $$$$)

Part of the reason FLORIDA's (and the rest of the USA) has an excellent plan is they have PAID contracts from FEMA with these companies to provide the goods and services to those who can't afford them...and ultimately after a storm even those foolish enough not to prepare, who CAN afford them....yes the U.S.A. is full of those who also seek entitlement.

ALL OF THAT SAID: You are correct, it is IMPOSSIBLE to fully prepare for mother nature's wrath HOWEVER.....Preparedness as individuals is paramount to the success of any national plan...individuals need to plan for disaster with food, water, communication and possible shelter. (and that includes relocating to a shelter or a friends house...)

If those that can afford to prepare would put away the necessities, it would allow officials to dedicate rescue and recovery to those who need it....when no one prepares....the system gets bogged down as after H-Katrina. Personally, I am able to feed and water 4 people from my home. I live alone...the less people I help, the longer I can go...it's a matter of PLANNING.

Think of it this way....WE ALL try to PLAN for retirement. Pilots, divers, doctors, dentists, NASCAR drivers, professional sports....all work from a PLAN...and that is the key........the DR government has no real plan (trust me)...they react and are not proactive....that requires a budget, and there is NONE... the COE GENERAL walked off a stage when asked his budget after TS OLGA!

I pointed out many issues to officials that will result in devastation far beyond your wildest dreams..... should a CAT1 or CAT2 hurricane hit SD from the SOUTH....that is a storm moving WEST, with it's eye-wall at or near the coast, where the full effects of the highest winds are felt.

The majority of NEW buildings have no window protection, the majority of the CZ is unprotected, the electrical grid is in severe disrepair, CLEAN WATER will be non-existant....and the shanty towns (the poor) will simply be blown away as happened on the river banks in the areas I saw.

(I found biological evidence in barbed wire fences along the river banks after NOEL that lead me to believe more than 45 died....when there's NOBODY in your family left to report you missing...no one knows) The photos have been forwarded to US. agencies that provided funding post storm.

Do yourself a favor....get with family and friends and put together a simple plan...one that will help others...it's good insurance...

After this years season....of CAT3s and CAT5s rolling by the island, one should heed the warning....it's not a matter of IF the DR gets hit hard....it's a matter of WHEN.

Respecfully,

Pyratt
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  #34  
Old 01-07-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pyratt View Post
Yes Bob you can...and I wrote a guide based on my education and expertise 2years ago. A guide that is endorsed on a responders knowledge database in the U.S., a database endorsed by DHS. I have lectured multiple response agencies in the U.S. (and now the DR) and my advice is very well received.

Unfortunately, the one time I put up my website here on DR1, it was removed and I was told I could write a plan for DR1 as a "labor of love"....I haven't time to rewrite it here....but you can read excerpts for free online at Amazon.

Respecfully,

Pyratt
If you want to sell your guide on DR1, you need to become an advertiser. Advertising on DR1 is some of the best bang for the buck available.

I suggested that your expertise can be best utilized by the readers of DR1 (a free forum) if you wanted to look over our published preparedness plan which we put together at DR1 at no cost for the readers and posters of DR1.

Let's keep our quotes and our facts correct. We have many posters with expertise in many areas. To sell anything on DR1, you have to become an advertiser.

As for preparedness, I endorse what you say fully. So Pyratt, would you look over our preparedness plan in the weather forum and make a few notes on where it can be improved? as a labor of love. If you feel the DR1 can benefit by purchasing some of your goods and services, please contact Robert directly.
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  #35  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by NotLurking View Post
I can tell you for a fact that I have prsonally fished Tilapias in the supposed Las Barias dam (the locals call it contra-enbarse), it is not what I would consider a dam! It is a lake like area about a kilometer AFTER Valdesia dam! In fact, if you look at the enegry contribution of the supposed Las Barias dam it is ZERO! If INDRHI considers this a dam so be it. All the locals consider it part of Valdesia and so do I.
Any word from your cousin yet NotLurking? Or is he busily involved in 'Cuatro comunidades ubicadas alrededor del contraembalse Las Baras reclamaron ayer una indemnizacin por parte de la Corporacin Dominicana de Empresas Elctricas Estatales (CDEEE) para las ms de 200 familias que fueron afectadas por el supuesto mal manejo de la presa de Valdesia, durante el paso de la tormenta "Noel".'?
Piden reparacin daos causados por Valdesia - DiarioLibre.com

They want compensation from CDEEE for the alleged mismanagement of Valdesia during Noel & resultant damages. They have formed themselves into the Comit de Defensa de las Comunidades Afectadas por el Mal Manejo de la Presa de Valdesia. If they get no response in 10 days they may pursue civil & criminal action.

Are we seeing at long last a citizen demand for accountability? First Tavera, now Valdesia.
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  #36  
Old 01-09-2008, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambada View Post
Any word from your cousin yet NotLurking? Or is he busily involved in 'Cuatro comunidades ubicadas alrededor del contraembalse Las Baras reclamaron ayer una indemnizacin
Lambada, I have not yet spoken with my cousin. The cellular service in Las Barias is usually bad but it has been worst after TS Noel. I hope I can catch him on his cell this week (there is no land lines available in Las Barias). I will post an update as soon as I speak with him.

BTW. My uncle lost all his onion crop (100 tareas of onions) when too much water was let out of contraembalse and the Nizao river flooded my families farm during TS Noel. The result is that about 60 tareas (3.77 Hectares or about 10 acres) of farm land got buried under about 2 feet of rocks, sand and debris. (Many of my family members are involved in this case and would like to get some sort compensation for their land. I'll post an update if anyone in my family gets anything from the gov - money or help with their farm)

Did you notice that the article you posted refers area as contraembalse and NOT Las Barias dam? Also, the claim is that Valdesia was mismanaged NOT Las Barias dam, so, where oh where is Las Barias dam?

NotLurking
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  #37  
Old 01-09-2008, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
If you want to sell your guide on DR1, you need to become an advertiser. Advertising on DR1 is some of the best bang for the buck available.

I suggested that your expertise can be best utilized by the readers of DR1 (a free forum) if you wanted to look over our published preparedness plan which we put together at DR1 at no cost for the readers and posters of DR1.

Let's keep our quotes and our facts correct. We have many posters with expertise in many areas. To sell anything on DR1, you have to become an advertiser.

As for preparedness, I endorse what you say fully. So Pyratt, would you look over our preparedness plan in the weather forum and make a few notes on where it can be improved? as a labor of love. If you feel the DR1 can benefit by purchasing some of your goods and services, please contact Robert directly.
As I said in my PM to you Chris, I have "nothing to sell" in this venue.

My position as a contractor in the U.S. does not allow me the ability (by contract) to re-write your preparedness plan or anyone elses. (liability issues)
The different organizations that utilize my company assume the liability when they deploy us. Which is how my last trip originated....

A "Where's the aid money?" trip. (I think we all know.....) I post this here only to serve as "I did respond to you"...

Again, I appreciate the forum.
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  #38  
Old 01-09-2008, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NotLurking View Post
Did you notice that the article you posted refers area as contraembalse and NOT Las Barias dam? Also, the claim is that Valdesia was mismanaged NOT Las Barias dam, so, where oh where is Las Barias dam? NotLurking
I sure did, NotLurking. That's why I included the quote - it backs up what you said admirably I thought. Here's another also about the same issue 'Las comunidades afectadas por el desage de la presa de Valdesia fueron Las Baras, El Mazail, Punta de la Pea y Boca de Mana. Estas poseen una poblacin de ms de 200 personas, en conjunto, y estn localizadas alrededor del contraembalse de Las Baras.'
La República - Afectados por la destrucción de la presa de Valdesia ex*gen terrenos

Please do keep us posted as to how your uncle's claim & the other 199 people affected gets dealt with by the Government. There are a lot of parallels here with the Tavera tragedy and one thing we can do here on this thread is to publically hold the Government accountable. And keep doing so. And remind potential expats where not to buy land etc etc.

Wouldn't it be nice if all new people moving here wrote to the Government and said 'I'll invest in your country when you do what's right by your citizens'? Just a suggestion...............
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  #39  
Old 01-12-2008, 01:24 AM
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NotLurking, did your uncle see this on INDRHI's website? Possible World Bank help with this issue?
Instituto Nacional de Recursos Hidrulicos -INDRHI-

There do seem to be some questions around as to when other help which has already been promised over agricultural losses generally, might materialise.
Amable acusa Gobierno abandonar afectados por tormentas Noel y Olga*
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  #40  
Old 01-12-2008, 01:58 AM
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Lambada, thanks for this info!!! I don't think my uncle has seen this yet but I will share it with him! Thanks again!

NotLurking
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