I have about had it with Alejandrina German

[bob saunders]

I'm thinking that there is $5,000,000 RD in concrete in that place.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

NALs, do you seriously believe that the house is worth just RD$5 or 6 million?

The possibility exist, given several factors, but....

For staters, here is an aerial picture of the house.



From the description Alejandrina gave to the press following the accusation, the house consist of the following (compare the details with what is seen in the photos):

1) First floor: 2-car port with cement roof.
2) Second floor: living room, dining room, and service room.
3) Third floor: 3 bedrooms
4) Fourth floor: studio and in the outside area a jacuzzi and a pool.

I don't know about anyone else, but if that is the "mansion" Nuria was alluding to, then it must be the smallest "mansion" in the world.

In addition to those detail:

A) The roofs are all (except the roof of the car port) zinc painted in red.
B) The irregularity of the property was not modified. Instead of leveling the slope of the hill, the home was built into it, a construction practice that considerably cheapens construction costs.
C) Construction of the home was initiated in 2002 on a parcel that Alejandrina's husband purchased in 1997.

- Other construction materials include pine wood, ceramic floors, all doors of pine, zinc roofs over a base of pine plywood.

That information comes from the press release Alejandrina made and judging by what can be seen in the photos, it all appears to be true. The materials used all point towards maintaining a low construction cost, given that zinc and pine wood was used extensively -zinc, BTW, is a no no among fashionable people-, the topography of the terrain was left unchanged, etc. Also, the fact that the home was initiated in 2002 and to this day is still under construction points to the possibility that this home has been and continues to be built at a relatively leisurely pace. That is a practice typical of people who either built for pleasure (as a joint project between husband and wife) or someone with relatively limited resources building little by little. Such is contrary to what would be expected had the funds been stolen, since under such circumstances the home would have been built as quick as possible and all purchases would had taken place within a very short amount of time after 2004.

Add to that the remoteness of the property. I don't know if you are familiar with Jucumuncu, but that place is nowhere near the part of Jarabacoa where the summer mountain homes of the well to do cluster. Its away from that area in an isolated part where services of any are not available. The road is unpaved, electricity services are non-existent, sewers are non-existent, telecommunications lines are non-existent, etc.

It all points towards the home having a relatively low market value, especially when its taken into consideration that in other areas in the Jarabacoa valley, homes with better access to amenities and services (and built of better and costlier materials) are available for more money, of course.

Last but not least, a quick glance at the following web site (click here) shows a few Jarabacoa properties for sale with values between RD$5 million and RD$10 million (about US$150,000 to US$300,000). Compare the photos of those homes (at ground level) and using the image above try to imagine what Alejandrina's house must look like at ground level.

Its not the mansion Nuria claimed, its not as luxurious as her report made it seem, the locality and inaccessibility of the property and amenities there doesn't support the possibility of the property being worth over US$300,000, the materials used point towards an attempt at keeping costs low as if her own funds were in use, etc.

-NALs

[NALs]

Originally Posted by catcherintherye

NALs, I do not disagree with the points you made in your response to me. I also believe there are many honest and well-meaning people within the current administration. However, if you read comments closely, you will see that I was simply saying that there are many (a few, some, several, whatever) people within the administration whose agenda might be different than than the stated goals of Leonel and his party. It is no secret that a few well-positioned administrators can pretty much control the speed, form and substance in the implimentation of any policy. Sometimes those administrative posts carry over from one administration to the next. Again, I am not arguing for or against the basic intent of any political party. It's just in the real world there is always compromise and subterfuge, so one has to look at what is actually being accomplish, not what a president might want, or not want, to be accomplished. And on that point, I do not know enough to suggest one thing or another.

There are always people with ulterior motives found in every group. However, I believe there are less of those people under the current administration than was the case under the PRD 2000-2004 administration or the current teams of the PRD or PRSC running for the presidency.

The degree of corruption that Miguel Maldonado himself is suspected of and involved in (a problem that goes beyond the borders of the country), the insulting attitude of Aristy Castro (throwing money from helicopters and giving people money in cash so they vote for him) are, at the very least, sickening.

It would be better if less people in the current administration had ulterior motives, BUT few people will deny that there are less corrupt individuals in this administration than in the other two "potential" administration or any other administration in the past. The only exception might had been Juan Bosch's administration in the 1960s, but we all know how long that lasted and how it ended.

The number of things that have been accomplished under the current administration, not just in education, but also in infrastructure, economics, technology, etc. is greater, much more visible, and much more widespread than that of most administration in such short period of time.

Its not a perfect administration and there are still many problems left to be resolved in society and within the administration itself, but at least in the latter there are less to be taken cared of and given the situation of the country, less is always better in that aspect.

-NALs

[bob saunders]

It wouldn't be news if all those details were in the story. NALS is certainly right about one thing-this isn't where the rich build in Jarabacoa and this place is a shack compared to the burro's place or Maldonado's mansion.

[catcherintherye]

NALs, I'm just a nonpartisan observer. I'm not up to date at all on the details of this controversy, nor am I at all invested in its outcome. But I’ve got to tell you that you’re shooting yourself and your argument in the foot with this “evidence” you are presenting about the house in question. You cannot seriously believe, or expect anyone else to believe, that the house you have posted is worth less than $300,000 US. That house is worth 10 times that amount, easily. You can imagine whatever you’d like regarding my “agenda,” the fact is I have none. I just think you are way off on your assessment of the value of that house, and your own evidence indicates as much.

[bob saunders]

The house is only worth what the market will bear, and most houses in Jarabacoa, and the DR in general have an inflated value, which is why so many of them are on the market so long. Location, location, and above all price.

[Chirimoya]

It may not be marble and mahogany, but that is some pad. Those are not zinc roofs, BTW. The place is remote, that's precisely why the construction would have been that much more expensive, because they had to create the access roads, and install electricity supply lines.

Don't get me wrong - even I agree that the PLD are the 'menos malo' of the three parties on offer, but that does not make me blind to this huge pile of cattle manure they're trying to feed us here.

The Minister of Education appears to be underestimating the intelligence of her uneducated masses.

[bob saunders]

And that school is 7 classrooms for about 400 students.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by catcherintherye

NALs, I'm just a nonpartisan observer. I'm not up to date at all on the details of this controversy, nor am I at all invested in its outcome. But I’ve got to tell you that you’re shooting yourself and your argument in the foot with this “evidence” you are presenting about the house in question. You cannot seriously believe, or expect anyone else to believe, that the house you have posted is worth less than $300,000 US. That house is worth 10 times that amount, easily. You can imagine whatever you’d like regarding my “agenda,” the fact is I have none. I just think you are way off on your assessment of the value of that house, and your own evidence indicates as much.

Its apparent you are not familiar with the Dominican real estate market.

There are plenty of homes, some of which are nicer than Alejandrina, that due to location aren't worth past US$500,000, and these are homes than in places with cachet like Casa de Campo or Puntacana Resort and Club or Cacicazgos, Cuesta Hermosa, Cerros de Gurabo, Sea Horse Ranch, etc. would go for just under a million US, maybe even more. Had the home been built in the "good" area, then I would believe its value to be much higher, but it isn't. The DR is a country where one house can go for a million and around the corner, literally, homes barely break the US$500,000 mark despite being a top notch construction. Sometimes, the disparate homes are within eye sight and/or walking distance.

Take the Cuesta Hermosa neighborhood in Santo Domingo as an example. The homes that hug the bluff that overlooks the Isabela River are worth MUCH MORE than the homes across the street from them. No joke!

Why? The views of the river and the greenery of the Parque Mirador del Norte are amazing and that makes the difference between a house selling for US$500,000 and an identical house in the "right spot" going for over a million! All of this within walking distance of each other.

This is not wishful thinking, its fact and a daily occurrence in Dominican real estate.

-NALs

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Those are not zinc roofs, BTW.

I don't know of any other roofing material that the lines where the sheets meet are visible.

The lines where the different sheets of zinc meet are clearly visible in the photos. Look where I have drawn the arrows (yes, those are arrows ) pin pointing some of the lines.

With real tiles the lines would create small rows and columns that are much more slim then what can be seen in the photo. The pattern visible in the photo is of zinc sheets, at least I don't know of anything else that creates such.

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

The place is remote, that's precisely why the construction would have been that much more expensive, because they had to create the access roads, and install electricity supply lines.

The access road is the same dirt road that has existed in that rural community. The only "road" that needed to be created would had been the driveway and I doubt any driveway would have so much weight on the overall construction cost.

To this day electricity supply lines are none existent there, as is the case with sewers and the like.

Its also quite possible to build a home at a loss. What ever is spent in a property doesn't necessarily reflects a dramatic increase in its overall value. Its value depends on various factors.

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Don't get me wrong - even I agree that the PLD are the 'menos malo' of the three parties on offer, but that does not make me blind to this huge pile of cattle manure they're trying to feed us here.

The Minister of Education appears to be underestimating the intelligence of her uneducated masses.

The one that seems to be underestimating the intelligence of the masses is Nuria. Had she done a report on Felix Jimenes, minister of Tourism, I would understand. Everyone knows he has a conflict of interest (or should I say complementing personal interests) related to certain investments he has made and his position as Tourism minister. That I would understand.

Alejandrina doesn't fit the mold of a corrupt politician. She has been involved in public education and its improvements for decades, even before she got involved at the government level. She has even received recognition nationally and internationally for her efforts and dedication to improving the education of Dominican children. Not once or twice, but several times.

She is an accomplished publisher of articles concerning education in the Dominican Republic in various respected journals, co-authored books concerning techniques on how to improve education, and graduated with a degree in education with the prestigious designation of Suma Cum Laude (a sign of being willing to work hard in order to achieve her goals and greatest aspirations).

In short, she is extremely qualified for her position as minister of education and the fact that she has such a record of excellence in achieving her own education and focus and dedication towards the improvement of the education of Dominican children for such a long time shows that she is a woman that:

A) Values and is willing to work hard in order to collect what she sow, as oppose to wanting to reap before sowing.

B) Education has been her focus, her career, her vocation, her dedication, her everything since the day she matriculated into the university to the today, as minister of education for the country and everything else in between.

She has a history of working hard in order to achieve her goals and of concentrating in her work.

Its EXTREMELY HARD to believe that someone that values hard work and dedication in order to EARN her accomplishment, recognition, and income in life would suddenly resort to corrupt practices.

In order for me to believe this, I need to see a full fledge investigation because there is NO WAY that enough information can be given in the evening news about anything.

Show me a published report, a legitimate investigation on this matter. Not some news hoopla that depends on ratings and leaves plenty of open gaps for people to fill them with assumptions as proof, because Nuria is first a television show and then she is everything else.

I understand she has a "thing" towards all politicians, given that her father was murdered by Balaguer. That was what made her become an investigative journalist, but she is human and as such, is subject to being wrong at the very least once in a while and I think this is one of them.

Her "facts" don't fit the mold. They just don't.

Take a look at Alejandrina's CV and see her accomplishments and dedication. It doesn't make sense that a hard working woman like her, someone that has valued hard work and has earned everything she has ever owned would suddenly resort to corruption. She's not mediocre in any way, so its hard to believe it without further detailed analysis.

Until then, I stand by what I have presented here.

CV de Lcda. Alejandrina Germán

-NALs