Leonel Learns Lessons from Bush

[A.Hidalgo]

For some folks, anything else that is not DR related is fair game....but if any mention of GWB, watch out its definitely NOT DR related!!!! hahaha

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by SKY

Hurricane Katrina pictures New Orleans superdome victims

This was a disgrace, pure and simple. Someone has to step up and take some responsibility or the next time will be the same.

Look at the link and tell me how great your Government is when poor people are involved. If this happened in Texas the response would be a little different I believe.

What about Nagin and Blanco? Aren't they truly the "first responders"?

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo

For some folks, anything else that is not DR related is fair game....but if any mention of GWB, watch out its definitely NOT DR related!!!! hahaha

Perhaps ~some~ chose to abide by the rules and steer clear of non-DR related topics. Old dogs/new tricks and all that.

[Berzin]

Originally Posted by Chip

botched storm responses - The Katrina disaster is 500% different from the Tavares dam disaster, the people died in Cibao because the numbnut engineers can't add 1 plus 1 - read the papers. The Katrina disaster occurred because the storm was greater than the design capacity of the infrastructure created to handle it. This was an immense and powerful storm and the only reason that the US government gets blamed is because that is what anybody does anymore. For all the uneducated who think the US did a bad job I ask them to look at the recent Cyclone in Myanmar where more than 100,000 people have estimated to have died -that is what happens when you have no preparation. By the way I am a professional engineer specializing in drainage and I don't say this stuff lightly.

Chip, you've always seemed like a reasonable enough person until this. You may be an engineer but you are NOT a historian. Do your research on how the Army Corps of Engineers built the levees in New Orleans.

Compare the structural incompetence with the system in Holland built to keep out the North Sea, where so much of the country lies below sea level. After the 1953 storm did so much damage, the government(keep that word in mind) vowed to never let this happen again.

So they built a series of dikes and levees that are considered "overbuilt", as their system is capable of handling the most severe storms nature can throw at it. A modern, functioning system that was built to protect its' citizens from storm and flood damage.

This was not the case with the levees built in New Orleans. They were never built to withstand the forces that compromised its' structural integrity, and they were built so purposely and willingly, knowing that a certain category of storm could and would do major damage. This was even after a few storms had already made an example of such a flawed system.

When someone as seemingly bright as you gets something like this so wrong its' not your judgment or your intelligence that I question, its' your politics.

Remember Chip, Its' government "Of the People, BY the People, FOR the People" and not "of the republicans, by the corporations and for the richest 10%".

A country that despises its' poor like the DR must be a right-wingers' dream come true.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Berzin

This was not the case with the levees built in New Orleans. They were never builtto withstand the forces that compromised its' structural integrity, and they were built so purposely and willingly, knowing that a certain category of storm could and would do major damage. This was even after a few storms had already made an example of such a flawed system.

With all due respect Berzin, I doubt you know what you are talking about. first of all, while the systems in Holland are quite impressive, I doubt they were built to deal with a Hurricane.

Second, I may be no historian, but have actually worked with the US Army Corp of Engineers on more than one occasion. Second, my father worked for the US Federal Government as an engineer for more than 35 years, so I was raised in an engineering "family".

Furthermore, every professional engineer in the US is not only accountable by private organizations(such as the ASCE), by State as well, not to mention that plans are thoroughly reviewed by other engineers.

The comments in bold actually are correct, however, it appears you either did not read or understand my early somewhat length post. Let me restate it so that all can understand.

THE MAJORITY OF THE DRAINAGE SYSTEMS IN THE US ARE DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND A MAXIMUM STORM EVENT, AND WILL FAIL IF THE STORM EVENT IS EXCEEDED.

(In many areas, the 50 year event is used, on coastal areas and near rivers, the 100 year event is used.)

This fact, combined with the poor maintenance of the system caused the drainage system to fail. The amount of rainfall was very close to the 100 yr even design(12") as well.

My issue isn't that no one isn't to blame, BUT THAT GW BUSH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!

In my 15+ years and NUMEROUS countless drainage designs, the Federal Government(apart from FEMA), and much less GW have NEVER reviewed or approved my plans!

In the case of the Katrina Disaster, the Corp of Engineer's, City of New Orleans and State of Louisiana all bear the direct blame for the failure of the Drainage system, as they all have departments that were responsible for drainage systems. FEMA is responsible in large part to the strom distaster response. GW has nothing to do with managing FEMA. Also, GW declared a State of emergency two days before Katrina made landfall, when they were't even sure of the path of the hurricane:

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

To continue, it is utterly ridiculous and shamefull to constantly perpetuate that the Katrina disaster was due to racial or lack of care of the poor or other reasons. As far as the racial reasons, this is a slap in the face to all of the numerous black people who are engineers or professionals otherwise involved. As far as the lack of care for the poor, again a disgraceful conspiracy theory, as if the professionals involved care who has money and who doesn't.

In conclusion, the main causes of the Katrina disaster were the less than perfectly maintained drainage systems couple with the massive size of the storm and FEMA's failure to adequately help people in need. Human failure, nothing less nothing more.